26-04-2002 23:11									#31
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Personally I think illegals should be rounded up and thrown out.
While it should not be a law that immigrants must speak English, in the US we should only print signs, notices, etc. in English and force them to learn English in that.
Not to mention its damn annoying and stupid as hell for there to be a push to teach in Spanish only - or Spanish/whatever AT ALL - in public schools.

	27-04-2002 00:05									#32
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All the while you gringos expect everyone else in the world to speak english?
Everyone is entitled to their own language. Speaking the countries language where you are at within your limitations is a courtesy.

Do not expect the rest of the world to change their antiamerican views if you don't change your own views about ther rest of the world.

	27-04-2002 00:05									#33
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Personally I think illegals should be rounded up and thrown out. While it should not be a law that immigrants must speak English, in the US we should only print signs, notices, etc. in English and force them to learn English in that. Not to mention its damn annoying and stupid as hell for there to be a push to teach in Spanish only - or Spanish/whatever AT ALL - in public schools.

I agree. To have spanish speaking schools would only widen the ethnic divide.

	27-04-2002 00:17									#34
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Well then, you had better stop talking the NZ stuff, and learn USAian.

	27-04-2002 00:25									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola Well then, you had better stop talking the NZ stuff, and learn USAian.

Okay godammit y'all!

	27-04-2002 00:27									#36
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How do they promote those spanish-speaking schools? What are their motives? It sounds pretty stupid and countra-productive to me. And at the same time the spanish-speaking minority hasn't got a long history in the country of USA (except possibly in some areas) like many other minorities all over the globe so it seems strange.

	27-04-2002 00:51									#37
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quote: Originally posted by our_man If they want to speak only Spanish, the U.S. should accomodate them by shipping them back to Mexico. Unless Spanish is a national language in the U.S.? Even so, they should still have to take English classes.

Interesting. So English has been designated the official language of the U.S. then? I hadn't heard anything about that. Thanks for the heads up.


What is with this "shipping them back to..." phrase that people use? "They don't want to learn English? Ship 'em back to Mexico!" "They want reparations? Ship 'em back to Africa!" Are you compensating for a shortfall in the phallus department or something? All that testosterone make little Mr. Wee Wee get all excited?

	27-04-2002 00:53									#38
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Not to mention its damn annoying and stupid as hell for there to be a push to teach in Spanish only - or Spanish/whatever AT ALL - in public schools.

Wait a minute, Floyd. This might be a bit of a threadjack, but this seems insane, even for you. Spanish shouldn't be taught AT ALL in public schools?

	27-04-2002 00:53									#39
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Nothing wrong with a little nationalism now and then, Guynemer, or there wouldn't be any nations.

	27-04-2002 00:53									#40
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And that would be a bad thing how, exactly?

	27-04-2002 00:55									#41
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We wouldnt have any national flags for starters.

The olympics would be confusing.

And people in the middle east would have a confusing list of people to blame.

	27-04-2002 00:57									#42
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I must admit, that's a pretty convincing list.

	27-04-2002 01:00									#43
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Guynemer-

How are people ever going to get along if they dont learn to communicate with each other? By having spanish-only schools we would be creating mini-countries within the US. This just isolates people from each other and adds to racial tension.

	27-04-2002 01:01									#44
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Should everyone on Poly be expected to speak English, or is just the lingua franca.

	27-04-2002 01:01									#45
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Personally I think illegals should be rounded up and thrown out.

David, be wary of urging the government to use coercive methods for a seemingly good end. I think people have the right to live freely wherever they wish, so long as they don't violate the rights of others in doing so. The fact that we have immigration restrictions in this country beyond they obvious (invading armies ought to be stopped at the borders), is a travesty. Anybody who wants to be American and is willing to accept our principles of freedom and democracy should be allowed in.

As far as learning the language, I think people should be encouraged to learn English, if only because that's one of the keys to economic wellbeing in the US. But if somebody wants to speak Spanish or French (my grandfather grew up in the bayou and didn't learn English until his teen years), that's entirely their business. Public schools should be run however the local community wants them run.

Also keep in mind that there is no official language in the United States. The Constitution does not grant that authority, and the First Ammendment could reasonably be viewed to prohibit it.

	27-04-2002 01:03									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin Should everyone on Poly be expected to speak English, or is just the lingua franca.

wouldn't that be Finnish?

	27-04-2002 01:05									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Guynemer- How are people ever going to get along if they dont learn to communicate with each other? By having spanish-only schools we would be creating mini-countries within the US. This just isolates people from each other and adds to racial tension.

My point was that it's rather asinine to say that people should be forced to learn English. That very idea is rather hideously un-American. EDIT: Forgot to add this: people will learn English if it is advantageous for them to do so. No need to force it people. In some areas (Florida, Texas, California), you can get by quite nicely with only Spanish.

	27-04-2002 01:08									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Felch X The fact that we have immigration restrictions in this country beyond they obvious (invading armies ought to be stopped at the borders), is a travesty. Anybody who wants to be American and is willing to accept our principles of freedom and democracy should be allowed in.

How are you going to know whether they accept our principles of freedom and democracy? If you are just going to let anyone in who wants to live here there are going to be a hell of a lot of people moving to the US. The INS cant even process the immigrants that are coming in now, so how are they going to manage if you just let everyone and his brother in?

	27-04-2002 01:10									#49
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quote: Originally posted by MrBaggins wouldn't that be Finnish?

Nope. They are all immigrants.

	27-04-2002 01:15									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer My point was that it's rather asinine to say that people should be forced to learn English. That very idea is rather hideously un-American. EDIT: Forgot to add this: people will learn English if it is advantageous for them to do so. No need to force it people. In some areas (Florida, Texas, California), you can get by quite nicely with only Spanish.

That is a problem, because it shows that there are groups of people who are so isolated from the rest of the country that they dont even speak the common language. And when this group is also of a different race than the majority you are asking for trouble. Its hard enough for people of different races to get along without separating them by language too!

If a trend like this is allowed to continue then you will eventually have these groups asking for autonomy and their own government.

Do you want the United States to exist in 500 years?

There is no need to force people to learn english, but neither should we accomodate them if they refuse to do so.

	27-04-2002 01:18									#51
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Where's Ramo and his crusade for the representation of the elderly hispanics?

	27-04-2002 01:21									#52
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Cali, believe me, what you've posted is bull****. And I tell you from the perspective of someone who deals everyday with lots of people who only speak Spanish

	27-04-2002 01:25									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Jay Bee Cali, believe me, what you've posted is bull****. And I tell you from the perspective of someone who deals everyday with lots of people who only speak Spanish

Im interested to know why you think its bullshit then.

	27-04-2002 01:27									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia How are you going to know whether they accept our principles of freedom and democracy? If you are just going to let anyone in who wants to live here there are going to be a hell of a lot of people moving to the US. The INS cant even process the immigrants that are coming in now, so how are they going to manage if you just let everyone and his brother in?

The vast majority of people who come to the US want to accept our principles. If the INS system were streamlined it would be much easier to process immigrants. Besides, if we allow people to enter the country freely then the INS (or whatever new administration is put in its place) to focus on processing legal immigrants. As it is, too much mony is spent trying to keep people out who only want to work hard and make a better life for themselves and their families.

In my opinion, as long as someone is not known to be a violent criminal or belligerent towards the United States or our allies, they should be allowed to enter the country. If they don't fulfill that minor obligation, they should be kept out until such time as they are not seen to be a threat to the people here.

	27-04-2002 01:28									#55
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Cos you are assuming they refuse to learn English. Most of them don't speak English just because they have not been taught.

	27-04-2002 01:29									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Felch X The vast majority of people who come to the US want to accept our principles. If the INS system were streamlined it would be much easier to process immigrants. Besides, if we allow people to enter the country freely then the INS (or whatever new administration is put in its place) to focus on processing legal immigrants. As it is, too much mony is spent trying to keep people out who only want to work hard and make a better life for themselves and their families. In my opinion, as long as someone is not known to be a violent criminal or belligerent towards the United States or our allies, they should be allowed to enter the country. If they don't fulfill that minor obligation, they should be kept out until such time as they are not seen to be a threat to the people here.

An open-arms border with no profiling just means more florida flight students knocking down buildings.

	27-04-2002 01:36									#57
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quote: Originally posted by MrBaggins An open-arms border with no profiling just means more florida flight students knocking down buildings.

Well, but at the same time that shows that the current migration-policy isn't a garantee for new citizens that accept its principles. So, all in all, that hardly seems to be a vaild point.

As a side note it might be so that principles can and possible should be changed if people no longer accepted them. principles based on some sort of natural order has been proved wrong before.

	27-04-2002 01:36									#58
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quote: Originally posted by MrBaggins An open-arms border with no profiling just means more florida flight students knocking down buildings.

I can almost hear Le Pen saying this...

[Alex prepares himself for a bombardment...]

	27-04-2002 01:37									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin Well, but at the same time that shows that the current migration-policy isn't a garantee for new citizens that accept its principles. So, all in all, that hardly seems to be a vaild point. As a side note it might be so that principles can and possible should be changed if people no longer accepted them. principles based on some sort of natural order has been proved wrong before.

If anything that is a reason for cracking down harder. You weed out, using profiling techniques those likely to harbor unneighborly thoughts...

are you a muslim? have you ever been to a mosque? etc

	27-04-2002 01:39									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Jay Bee Cos you are assuming they refuse to learn English. Most of them don't speak English just because they have not been taught.

Im not assuming anything except that there are groups of people in the states who cant communicate with the majority of americans. Whether its because they refuse to learn or not doesnt make much difference to the fact.