18-03-2003 05:13									#391
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Playing my first Impossible game now... meh, this is EASY.. ;-)

I went with

Huge galaxy, Organic
Creative, LHW, RHW, Dicatorship, +1 Science, Telepathic
-ship offense, -ground combat, Repulsive... picked Warlord as the evolution mutation.

Essentially, traded out Omniscient (not so needed after all) and Artifact world for Telephathic.

Started out a bit slow and met enemies early, but that was really a good thing, as I managed to absorb the Alkari empire pretty quickly - with three frigates alone, two with Ions and one Mass Driver.

After getting about 2/5 of the galaxy, they've all declared war on me (since I'm repulsive? maybe this would have been different with -bc instead), but can't crack any colony defenses.. Just for fun I made an "overtaker" battleship with troop pods, transporters and disruptors and all sorts of defensive goodies, just to fly around and assimilate the ships blockading... buahhgah

	18-03-2003 05:44									#392
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Rubbrduck did you use Prewarp or Avg or Adv tech start?
When absorbed the Alkari, what do you mean? AFAIK you can not assimilate a race as a tele with out a capitol ship (crusier or larger)? Do you mean you sent troops?
Repulsive mean no diplomacy, but at the stage you were at it would probably not matter, they would likely go to war anyway.

	18-03-2003 05:54									#393
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quote: Originally posted by Rubbrduck Creative, LHW, RHW, Dicatorship, +1 Science, Telepathic -ship offense, -ground combat, Repulsive... picked Warlord as the evolution mutation. After getting about 2/5 of the galaxy, they've all declared war on me (since I'm repulsive? maybe this would have been different with -bc instead), but can't crack any colony defenses..

Just my perspective, but why take Warlord? I guess it really does not matter as you have won if you got to mutation.
Warlord give you extra experience for your crews and more CP. I would think those are not required at that stage.
Anyway what prevented you from beating the defenses at a planet? What did they have and what were yu attacking with?
Post a game at that point, I would like to see what is going on.
One of the problems at impossible is if you take a fun race like the one you have, it have less productive values. This means the AI taces can often get a big jump on colonization and leave you in a hole. You get to jump on a nearby race or two and then find someone that has a monster fleet with better tech and you got problems. The best way to avoid that is to crank out those CB and CS's.

	18-03-2003 22:56									#394
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Oh, it was them who could not crack any colony defenses, not me.. ;-)

It's progressed a bit now, they've started making nasty battleship stacks (20+) with phasors on, which can take out a fully buffed colony, so I've resigned to using Doomstars with stasis fields and teleporters..

Warlord was just to get Ultra-Elite crews really.. hehe.. fond memories from Master of Magic ;-) No purpose at all really, the game is already won sort of, so I just mess around...

I started out on Average, figuring that they, given their impossible production bonus, would have pulled ahead much quicker in pre-warp...

The Alkari were gobbled up by three Cruisers, made at my starting colony.. They really had more ships than me, but not enough to defeat my missile defenses, and not enough to spread out on all their colonies.... so I just picked one colony at a time, when there was only a Starbase present, and then insta-bought a missile base... shockingly easy ;-)

I tend to play very defensively though... and building almost no ships before getting to the higher techs..

	18-03-2003 23:09									#395
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Rubbrduck watch out for the phasors late inthe game as they can not do anything to a planet that has a Barrier Shiled and Class X with top armor.
It is a sad sight to watch the BB still there and twitch in auto combat.
I love phasors, but I switch some ships to Disrupters when I get them. They can crack that planet. Sometimes a single DS with a stellar is good to have if you play that late into the game.

	19-03-2003 03:45									#396
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Besides, a DS with stellar is just fun to play with. Get rid of those annoying little planets or difficult enemies.

	19-03-2003 21:03									#397
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I, too, am working through my first potential success at Impossible. With v1.2, I used Uni, Sub, Creative & RHW; low grav, -10 ground, -Food. Started Pre-Warp & got off to a decent start with about 5 systems, when the neighbors came to visit. The Sils, Klacks, and Saks (First, Fouth, and Second in Pop) decided to start pounding me from turn 120-180 or so on (don’t remember exactly). The Sils attack about every other turn, and the rest give me about two in ten turns respite -- on the other hand, I’ve kept up a steady state so far.

True to my moniker, I’m now around turn 310 or so. Took out Orion, but a space flux came on & I couldn’t set up a colony -- the Trilarians moved in (I’ll be back). Finally have Doom Stars & am finally getting some of the nicer techs. Gained a couple of systems, but one was bombed back to zippo. Biggest plus for me was a Gaia (+a Ultra-Rich) in a nebulae -- the enemy came with their class VII shields armed with heavy laser cannons -- only to fall to ground batteries (twice my defending ships were wasted away). Now of course the system has a few Titans defending with hard shields -- Two AI’s are throwing away their fleets at this chokepoint, letting me get even and start to pull ahead.

I’m about 2nd in Pop, with six out of the seven AI’s are officially at war (and will the Darloks be far behind?) I’m about to set up multiple fleets -- need to take out the Bul’s before somebody else does, then get a few more systems up to my perfectionist standards. It is strangely neat to watch my pitiful force, outnumbered three to one shoot up the enemy in the first round.

	19-03-2003 21:48									#398
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I just had an EXTREMELY funny game... hehe... I intended to do a "spying" game, played on Average with dicatorship/creative/+2 spying/charismatic, poor homeworld/-ground -ship, but in the end didn't really use any spies at all... 8 players, Huge galaxy.


However, the "charismatic" trait seemed magical - I would make nonagression pacts and then trade agreements with everyone - and then the foreign relations just skyrocketed. I got off to a slow start, but the trade agreements made me really rich... But the *best* part was - I could demand stuff "5% tribute" and "free system" - and got them for free! Handouts! Nothing like seeing them say "We will do as you command"! I got one system from each, most notably the Klackons and Psilons too, and then made lots of populations and shipped off to my production and research bases. Note that you can only ask for systems within range of your outposts or colonies.

In the end I was sort of looking forward to stomping them with my optimized race planets - But then there was an Orion Senate thing - and they all voted for me! Instant victory!

Definetly an entertaining and very different game...

On half my planets I never even built space defenses...

	19-03-2003 22:32									#399
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Old n Slow sounds like you are in good shape, but I would warn you that version 1.2 has many prolems and a number of things were broken (plasma cannons/gyro and creative pick).
The biggest thing about it is the surrendering of systems was way out of line.
Put on 1.31 and you have a different game.

	19-03-2003 22:40									#400
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Rubbrduck now use Repulsive, so you can not demand or trade.
I feel that trading is fine, but the demand function is still broken. It was improved a bit with 1.31, but all you need to 2 good ships and the AI will pay 5% tribute without you lifting a finger.
It reminds me of teachng cards to my kids, you have to watch out so as to not take an unfair advantage.
I would prefer that you could only deman that they stop spying.
CivIII has a similar problem when it came out, you could pound on a Civ and demand all sorts of stuff for peace.

	20-03-2003 15:51									#401
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Rubbrduck,
I'm trying to do the same kind of game you had : I just uberoptimized it by taking Telepath+Charisma, and get early Xeno Relations. +105% Diplo may allow me to ask them just to surrender (and give me their wives in the deal ) and if they don't want the Telepath ability will do it (converting planets) !!

	20-03-2003 21:16									#402
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I second vmxa1 suggestions. Enjoy it one time, but then it becomes too easy, use v1.31 and don't ask for systems or even money as the AI is too easy to take advantage of.

	21-03-2003 21:07									#403
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VMXa1 -- Haven’t pushed the system surrender much -- only saw it at the baby level (The Saks gave up the second time they came to talk to me!). But in my current game at Impos -- I’m now at war with everyone (someone else took out the buls before I got there, but I picked up the Psi’s (+2 science this time -- I think I’ll keep them).

Plasma cannons? Gyros? There are a number of good weapons, but it seems like there are some ‘best’ weapons depending upon the research path & stage of the game. I’m now using the late game battle tactics of ‘beam them from far away’ and don’t worry.

As far as the creative pick being a problem, I’ll just have to live with it until I happen to see a cheap 1.31 version available. I’ve only played this game for a month or so (it is cutting into my Civ II time as well) even though it has been on my shelf for a few years.

Question -- for those who play slowly (vs the rapid win strategy) and slog through all the techs, which ones do you tend to top out first? I see myself going thorough construction first, and power last.

	21-03-2003 21:47									#404
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You can download the patch for 1.2 to 1.31 for free.
No 1.31 version exist, only 1.0 oe 1.2.
The patch makes Creative 8 picks and increased the space required for Plasma Cannons and Gyros to effectively reduce their overpowering capacity.

	21-03-2003 22:03									#405
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quote: Originally posted by Old n Slow Question -- for those who play slowly (vs the rapid win strategy) and slog through all the techs, which ones do you tend to top out first? I see myself going thorough construction first, and power last.

I think the main difference is not so much in the tech choices, but in how they customize and play the races.

Freighters
Std Cells
Colony Ship
Electronic Comp
Research Labs
R Hull
Auto Fact
Bios
Soil or Cloner
Neural
Laser
Super
B Pods
Spaceport
Robos
Space Academy
Duets
Merc or PP
Augie
Irridium
Fusion Rifle
Tach Comm or Battle Scanner
Zort
Antimatter Drive

Your race will determine if you Soil or not. I mean Lith do not have much use for Soil and can not research it.
Scanner or Comm is another, Tele does not need Comm for instance.
If you were to do a OCC start, then you would chance this some.
OCC is one city civ, or for Moo2, you stay on your starting system.

	22-03-2003 02:20									#406
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Ah -- you win so fast, you don’t get to the end techs. Any favorite down towards the end that push you in one direction vs another?

	22-03-2003 03:31									#407
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quote: Originally posted by Old n Slow Ah -- you win so fast, you don’t get to the end techs. Any favorite down towards the end that push you in one direction vs another?

Do you have any that you are particularly interested in?
Most are straight forward to me, you make your choice on what your race is for that game.
Adv city Planning/Hv Fighter Bay/Star fort, I always choose City as more pop is always good. Star Fort are only useful to give me more CP. I will have to defend with fleets anyway.
Fungi/Mutation.Gaia is the only one I really lament over and no matter how I choose I miss the rest.
I opt for Gaia more often than not, but if there is a stealth race stil alive, I may have to take Mutation to get Omi. Of course I may steal one and make the choice easier.
I often will play a lessor race or try some tactic to cause the game to last longer.

	22-03-2003 08:24									#408
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Recently I've been trying out +50 defense and trans dimensional + creative on impossible (with diffenrent minus combos, rep+-50growth; low-g+ground+spy malus).
When I got Evolution I took Warlord and my Ultra Elite ships fitted with a cloaking device, Augmented Engines and Inertial Nullifier had more than 400 beam defense (plus whatever leader I had with me). Combined with Multi-ECM Jammers, my ships are rarely hit. Even the Antarans never hit me with that combo.

	22-03-2003 21:59									#409
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That is a good race if you want to be a builder or just defensive, which I do often, but sometimes you might want to or have to play offensive. There are lots of good suggestions for offense in these threads, basically use missile boats early and best beam BB later. The bottom line is do whats fun for you.

	22-03-2003 22:44									#410
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 What do you mean by too easy? The last time I lost a game was as a creative race, I never lost one as a tele?

I nerver loose a game with creative on huge, 8 players, impossible... I usually pick uni,creative,LHW,+2prod, minus to spy, ground and ship...I discover automatic factories then main colony makes plenty of colony ship (about 8 turns to make a colony ship). With computers it is impossible to loose. On the net I didn't play so I don't know.

	22-03-2003 23:45									#411
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mufa, congratulations, but it does not change anything I said.
BTW it is quite possible to lose and better players than me have done so.
If you have a strong race next to you they can blockade that race and then destroy it before they get the techs they need to be effective.
Now even I would not lose with a UniTol or UniLith.
Anyway I am not interested in games played with 1.2 as it was full of exploits.
Your race will not work in 1.31, it would have to be much weaker.
Creative 8 picks, Uni 6 picks, LHW 1 pick, +2 6 picks = 21. So you are either using 1.2 or an editor, either way is lame.

	23-03-2003 02:49									#412
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 BTW it is quite possible to lose and better players than me have done so.

Yes, I was not using 1.31, just downloaded 1.31... Now my minuses will be low-g, spying and GC... I will have to discover fast gravity generator.
Anyway I can't see how u can loose against computer.
Truth is I like this race becase I don't know how to design ships without plasma canon, so I prefer to play peacefull and to develop myself without killing others

What abous this race on small 8 players, average, imp:
tele,+20spy,unification ? And maybe I cheated because I pick darlok.

	23-03-2003 04:25									#413
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Watch out for plasma cannons now they are not as powerful as they were in 1.2. I do not even use them.
Tele on a small map should work just fine.
Losing is quite possible if you play with less than optimal races for us mere mortals.

	23-03-2003 04:35									#414
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Watch out for plasma cannons now they are not as powerful as they were in 1.2. I do not even use them. .

And what is better ? Disruptors ?

	23-03-2003 07:54									#415
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Autofire heavy mounted disrupters, yes.

	23-03-2003 08:00									#416
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quote: Originally posted by Old n Slow Ah -- you win so fast, you don’t get to the end techs. Any favorite down towards the end that push you in one direction vs another?

You want to win fast, try something like this:

Impossible, 8 players, avg tech, avg age

Tele Warlord Trans Omi RHW Fuedal Repulsive

You should make a cruiser with no computer and 9 nukes (2 shot) and DD with no comp and 4 nukes.

HW 4/4/0 start Cruiser send out scouts and find a planet close to the AI for the CS.
Start a DD on new colony.
Refit scouts at colony after DD is bought with 1 nuke.
You could win in around 80 turns. Less with proper AI locations (were you can get to them).

	23-03-2003 20:23									#417
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You people keep posting about LHW,HW, DD, AI, CS and other abrevations. Some of them I can imagine what they mean, others I just can't. Is there any list of abreviations I can download ?

Thanx

	23-03-2003 23:36									#418
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quote: Originally posted by mufa You people keep posting about LHW,HW, DD, AI, CS and other abrevations. Some of them I can imagine what they mean, others I just can't. Is there any list of abreviations I can download ? Thanx

Not that I know of, but if any are unclear let us know.
Bunch of lazy typers I guess.
LHW - Large Home World
HW - Home World
DD - United States Navy designation for a destroyer
AI - artifical intelligence or race
CS - could be a few things, but probably conlony ship, it depends on the context

any others?
BB - Navy for battleship

	23-03-2003 23:40									#419
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BTW I should have added that you want extended fuel tanks in those ships on the post for fast game.
You will know you have the CA right if it takes 19 times on the HW from day 1.
(I could not resist using CA for cruiser, again USN term)

	30-03-2003 06:20									#420
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i'm a veteran kali moo2 player.
these are stats based on mp gaming against other human opponents. and yes these races work great in 1 player as well.

best negatives:
repulsive, -ground combat, -ship defense
repulsive, -spying (regular ship defense makes big difference)
-food, -spying, -ground combat, -ship defense (best nonrepulsive combo, works best with unification aquatic combo)

these are the best empire building custom races:

production races: (these 2 races tie for best race in moo2)
unification, tolerant, +1production, large hw(optional)
unification, aquatic, +2production, rich & large hw

growth race:
unification, aquatic, subterranean, rich & large hw/+1production

lithovore races: (tech races)
democracy, lithovore, rich & large hw
subterranean, lithovore, +50%growth/artifacts, large hw
unification, tolerant, cybernetic (semilith, great in mineral rich)

creative races:
unification, aquatic, creative, large hw (best creative race out there)
unification, subterranean, creative
note: unification creative is much better and faster than democracy creative, and democracy has -spying as well, so i didnt list any democreative races

cash race:
democracy, aquatic, +1BC

dictatorship races:
tolerant, lithovore (lower tier production race)
tolerant, +1food, +2production (lower tier production race)
subterranean, aquatic, +100%growth, rich & large hw (lower tier growth race)