23-01-2003 07:06									#331
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And oh yeah, is there a way to go back and research a technology in a field you've already passed up, IE going back and getting Biospheres when you've already researched Hydroponic Farms?
Ignorantly Yours,
OshoX

	23-01-2003 09:14									#332
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quote: Originally posted by oshox And oh yeah, is there a way to go back and research a technology in a field you've already passed up, IE going back and getting Biospheres when you've already researched Hydroponic Farms? Ignorantly Yours, OshoX

NO. If you select Hydro, you lose the chance for Bio. Of course if creative you get both.
You will now have to steal or trade for Bio.

	23-01-2003 22:13									#333
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Oshox,

The thing about Uni Tol Large +1 pro is that you do get all production multipliers. When you play a production race like that the idea is to get a bunch of planets say 6 and then start researching. The extra buildings and pop you have will more than make up for it in the long haul.

If you balance your choices you will minimize their effects.

With that race take bios, 2 extra pop on your home can feed 6 pop.

If you are in an ave or min galaxy kill the first monster on a food world you can. Uni Tol +1 on a Huge Gaia UR. Lights out. That is a BB every couple turns. With AF and RM that is 15 pro + 18 per worker. If that planet just farms for itself you get 519 production per turn.

	27-01-2003 20:47									#334
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Yes, oshox, with unification (or actually with any race that has +food) you will do better if you take the biospheres. I am using hydros only if I am playing creative, and I am playing creative only in SP - for MP it is too slow ;-)

	29-01-2003 20:49									#335
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Bak,

Well I bought the game. On ME it is a mess. I couldn't see any wormholes (had to go star to star) and I couldn't use the see moves in combat.

First game I did a 168 turn extermination/assimilation of 7 ai on prewarp, ave, huge. Not bad after 4+ years of not playing.

Bork

	29-01-2003 21:55									#336
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My favorite race concentrates on a huge population, and therefore production and research ability. It also has a health intrinsic food and industry bonus (see below):

Aquatic (food bonus due to ice and swamp being ‘terran’ and ocean and terran being ‘gaian’; pop size bonus due to ocean and swamp being terran and terran and ocean being gaian)

Subterranean (larger pop overall)

Large home world (your initial world is so critical – let it grow and get huge, especially with the aquatic/subterranean combo: pop 28 (30 w/biospheres)!!)

Unification (food and industry bonus, and no morale hits)

- spy penalty (cover this by building lots of defensive probes, and augmenting with some spy tech picks)
- ground combat penalty (use tech and numbers to overcome)
- direct fire penalty (concentrate on MIRV missiles early and mid game, then go with +100% computer late in the Computer tech tree and go direct fire; the AI is pretty hopeless on missile defense, especially against MIRV pulsons en-mass!)

This leaves 2 picks left over, so when you get +4 picks late in the Bio tech tree you can go Telepathic!!! No more transports, and then your fleets literally roll over the universe.

	29-01-2003 23:16									#337
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Without commenting on anything else you said, I would just ask:

Why leave 2 pick and pass up on RHW?
Why do I need any picks that late in the game, especially Tele? I could see Omi, if stealth ships are around.
A Tele has to beat the defense and if you do that you can either conquer or destroy as you please. Your fleets are literally rolling over planets whatever your traits at this point.

	30-01-2003 17:46									#338
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Good work, Bork :-) For the wormholes - I don't know why the ME should mess with them, but from my experience I cannot see them too until i raise the brightness of my monitor a lot ..... For the other thing "see moves" I couldnt understand you? Pls, explain. If you mean that you cannot switch your ships by clicking on them it depends on if the initiative option on the game settings is turned on.

I'll try a speed kill with the same conditions with my fav SP race :-)

	30-01-2003 20:36									#339
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vmxa1 – you are right that by that part of the game it is usually long over. The only reason to go with telepathy is to reduce the pain-and-agony of having to construct and lug around all those transports. Basically, it makes the foregone conclusion easier to attain. I have to admit that I at this point I usually abandon these games as boring, or I have long since been elected to lead the senate since my population is so huge (even without conquering anyone).

	06-02-2003 21:30									#340
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Bak,

Turned the brightness up and everything on the screen was fixed.

During a speed kill, I quit any game where I get a splinter before turn 60. I got it down to 153 on my 2nd game with Uni-tol-rep-+1 pro large.

I didn't do the same tech tree I do in MP. I took Tach Comm as I never used anything but missile boats and I took anti-grav harnes because of the amount of ground combat I would be in.

I really believe that I could go 0 pop on tech after I get Ions and irridium and speed my kill time to about 140-145.

Catch you later
Bork

	14-02-2003 20:53									#341
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My personal favorite MoO2 race is a Lithovore with production and research bonuses, spying and ground combat penalties

This does tend to make me play genocidaly as I don't want these annoying citizens who need food so I just bombard and settle

In the earlier versions I Loved being able to afford creative as well as Lithovore and a productivity boost....

	14-02-2003 22:54									#342
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Lith can be good.

	18-02-2003 00:56									#343
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Ok, I got the total down to 137 with a non-splinter start. Still using uni-tol-large- +1 pro, repulsive -so -sd I decided the combat penalty was costing me.

Heck I even did turn 179 by vote with tactical combat off.

Still playing Huge 7 imp ai ave gal prewarp.

If you want VXMA upload a random start with my race and I will walk you through the horror that is a speed kill. The worst I have done is 165 turns.

	18-02-2003 05:20									#344
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Originalnork, that is fast. If you have one of your runs that is fine. Or start a new one and pick it up from around turn 50. That would be great.
My problem is I do not like to play real aggressively and that makes it hard to win early.

	18-02-2003 10:45									#345
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VXMA,

Well if you want a passive victory, I just did that at turn 215 without ever attacking an AI world.

I colonized everything other than ai worlds I even colonized in their systems. The only battles I had were over my worlds. I never attacked, I just blockaded every ai system.

	18-02-2003 10:54									#346
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What happen at T215? Did you win the vote or go to Antaries?

	18-02-2003 12:05									#347
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I won by vote at war with everyone but attacking noone.

	18-02-2003 12:44									#348
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I figured, since you can not blockade if not at war.
Did they not have enough shipping to crack the blockade, I guess not.
Well if you want to do a run through with either type, I would be interested.

	18-02-2003 15:13									#349
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Here is turn 0, go ahead and play it for a speed kill.

Here is my tech tree for the game

16 Freighters
21 St Cells
28 Colony Ship
50 Electronic Comp
58 Research Labs
61 R Hull
66 Auto Fact
70 Bios
76 Soil
83 Neural
84 Laser
93 Super
95 B Pods
98 Spaceport
102 Robos
103 Space Academy
106 Duets
109 Merc
110 Augie
116 Irridium
120 Ion
121 Fusion Rifle
123 Tach Comm
132 Zort
141 Antimatter Drive
the rest was moot.

I'll post the saves I have 4 but this was not good for a speed kill. No wormholes to break out from. Took me 160.

Attachment: save1.sav
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).

	18-02-2003 23:24									#350
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When did you start to make BB? Did you crank them out non stop after that?
Where they missile ships?

	19-02-2003 00:17									#351
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Turn 117 was my first BB this is about 10 turns slow for me but I was able to turn up the heat because the BB had merc fodder which made them strong. I had my 6th out right at the end of the game.

All missille boats. The ship design is in the ship design mid to late game thread. The first 2 were BM-2 the last 4 were BM-3. The rest was just bringing troops forward.

If you aren't playing the game aggressively what are you doing?

Once you run your time, I'll send you the 4 saves so you can see the progression

	19-02-2003 00:43									#352
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Ok, I should be starting in after lunch.

	19-02-2003 00:47									#353
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Enjoying myself at a lesiurely pace, until I decide to go on the attack.
I get my enjoyment form building up tech and planets, not from combat or winning.
I do not like to finish the game before all tech has been researched.

	19-02-2003 05:14									#354
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Here is a save at t73 so you can see how far I have gone off the track.

Attachment: save3.sav
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	19-02-2003 19:35									#355
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Incredibly far off. You will be 50+ turns behind me the way you are starting. It looks like you waited to get auto factories to start colonizing. Why? You are linear.

Expand before going for tech. 62 points going to planetary supers. Heck I do vertually nothing until I have 3 colony ships down. I will go over 150 rp on the way to supers.

I checked my save at turn 58 and I had 32 pop you were at 34 at turn 74

	19-02-2003 23:11									#356
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Well I was following what you said before, getting scouts to all the planets I could reach (4). This meant on T41 I started the 4th scout. On T48, I switched the prebuild to AF.
T51 built Bio so HW could add more pop and T53 started CS.

	20-02-2003 00:36									#357
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quote: Originally posted by originalbork Expand before going for tech. 62 points going to planetary supers. Heck I do vertually nothing until I have 3 colony ships down. I will go over 150 rp on the way to supers.

Well you need to squeeze in some research as you can not build CS without some tech.

	20-02-2003 03:44									#358
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Early steps to playing unitol.

1. Build bases on everything. Set them to housing. Move each extra to your home.
2. Research freighters
3. Build a freighter
4. Research Standard Cells
5. Build a scout
6. Research to Colony Ship. Once you get about a 10% chance of success you should be going full production so that you don't waste production. Remember that you need 160 rp to 100% a 80 rp tech, but once you cross 80 there is a chance of success. If you have a rich+ home system planet you may use it to build the CS's
7. No research. All production to colony ships. Once colonized go full production housing until you are 1/3 or 1/2 full before building other colony bases. No pop should be farming or teching on a planet that is set to housing.
8. Any planet that is not a production/research world should have 1 unit doing housing. Only buildings Robo & AF. No production/research world should be housing.
9 Once you have 2-4 colony ships down you will switch your home to research. Once your other systems are built out they go to research as well. Do not build rl & sc on non production or research worlds.

	20-02-2003 04:42									#359
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I did not pop slide the research deligently. I tend to do it until 400 rp stuff is done, but I admit I was lazy on that run. I do the move at around 50%.

	22-02-2003 00:25									#360
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When you are speed killing you need to not waste a unit of production or research. It is a common mistake to use housing on a world that is teching.

The only time I intentionally use housing on a planet with 2+ pop is early when I am building systems. I usually go housing to 1/3 to 1/2 full (no farmers or scientists) then I build bases on the rest of the system.

What was the turn you finished that game?