12-05-2002 23:49									#31
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

IMO play impossible on a small universe on 1.31 can not be done with out cheating. I have won on Huge, but not on small. They are on you too soon and steal every thing you have. I am talking about 6 or more players, a low number may work, not sure. By turn 150 they have shown up with 9 or 10 systems and are stealing and killing my spies. On huge it takes 300 turns often before they show up and I can have more spies in place and defenses.

Ok tried this out, impossible, small, 8 players. My first attempt went badly but I switched my race picks and won my second attempt by turn 125.

I took creative, subterranean, charismatic, large, richHW. lowg, -10 spy, -10 ground combat.

Charismatic was the difference, on my first attempt I choose differently and so was at war with 3 races by the 40th turn. With Charismatic I had trade deals with everybody and was able to eliminate the Bulrathi (who were repulsive), then the Gnolams, and then I won by the vote.

	13-05-2002 00:25									#32
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Excellent, I love to learn better ways. I will have to try this out.

	13-05-2002 00:30									#33
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Moom, I do not have a manual anymore, so I guess a Dip victory is by vote? I have have purchased this game three times and still have my original box (one came in a four pack deal), but I do not recall what happened to the manual or even the strat guide I once had. So hit me witht he details if you want or email it, thanks.

	13-05-2002 00:39									#34
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Garth, was that pre warp or what, what about age, organic or what?

	13-05-2002 04:13									#35
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Thought your post concerning beating the comps on impossible small was interesting so I tried it out:
Small Average 8 players, prewarp impossible

Race: (took psilon pic)
Telepath
Ship Offense +50
Large HW
Artifact HW
Dictator

Ship def -20
Ground Combat -20
Repulsive

Won by turn 115 Took out (in order) darlocks,alks,mrrshan,mecks,bulrathi, gnol, klacks
Pop 112
Captured 110
tech level 57(not much tech time)

Obviously my tactic was blitz with autofire laser corvettes - needed 4 to finish off the klacks as they had developed missle base and tritanium
Cheers!

	13-05-2002 05:15									#36
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

vmxa1,

There's no secret. Play as usual (340% race, take over sakkra) till you have exterminated all but two AIs and reduced those two to a tiny, preferably toxic planet each. Make sure they are in systems that your fleet can reach in one turn - it's important, and shouldn't be too difficult as you should have goos drives and leaders by now. Build the dimentional gate and station as many ships as you need to defeat Antares there. Klick next turn till there is a vote. Note the year of that vote and reload the autosave. Now, the turn before the vote, target your fleets at their respective systmes, and oder your ships to go to Antares. When the voting turn comes, the vote comes first, and you vote yourself in as Emperor, then your fleets arrive at their last planets and you destroy them, and finally your dimensional fleet gets to destroy Antares.

Voila! Tripple victory for a massive score bonus!

	13-05-2002 08:26									#37
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Great responsive everyone.
I never tried to do that, I usually grap Antarians with only one player left. So you can eliminate 7 races, cool.

	13-05-2002 19:32									#38
	Support Apolyton

Garth, was that pre warp or what, what about age, organic or what?

Advanced tech start, organic rich.

	13-05-2002 21:37									#39
	Inflate your Upload Space

Ok Garth that is what I went with. I fail to get the vote at 125. I thought I would, but 3 races abstained, even though I gave them stuff and was at max green relations. It was close and if one of them would have voteed I could have done it. Maybe if I was not at war with Sillies. In any event, next turn 4 of them declared war? Strange, to go from trade and max green to war. So I had to smash a bunch of planets and vote in at 250. I noticed that the Darks were able to send a fleet of 8 on turn 130's, fine. Turn 160's they sent 11 ships? Turn 195 they send 15 ships? Where did they come from? They only had three systems. I could not see the ships anywhere either. I forgot the bugaboo hit me in the previous game, where I had the last race down to one planet, with one pop and they still were able to steal from me. I had lots of spys and high spying values?
This was the first time I used trading. Normally I pass on it has in Moo they are losing BC's and once they go positive they declare war soon. I do not want to give them money to use against me and I want to decide when I will go to war. Charisma made it a little better. They still go to war, but it takes longer. In a small universe they must go to war. I will have to try the prewarp mode at some point.
Question, any one know what determines if a race is available to make demands on? There seems to be some race you can not make any deals with, only declare war or surrender? In this game two races were like that, Sakkra was one. This prevented me from getting them on my side for the vote.

	13-05-2002 22:02									#40
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

No diplomacy: that's what you get when that particular race is repulsive.

As for the Darlok's they have the stealthy ship race trait, that makes all their ships invisible on the map unless you have the omniscient race trait yourself. Reason enough to eradicate them as soon as possible, I say.

	14-05-2002 00:24									#41
	Put an end to popups!

Yeah repulsive. On impossible other races often are given that attribute with extra positives. I was lucky in my game, no Sillicoids and only the Bulrathi were repulsive. They lost one system to other AI's and so I was able to eliminate them during the 40's.

That gave me enough extra pop and resources to win easily.

I trade whenever I can, the extra tech and cash is great. I figure that with all the benefits the AI's get this will benefit me more.

	14-05-2002 03:07									#42
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Yeah that makes sense no dip. I thought theere was a trait for stealth ships. I like to eliminate them anyway as they steal too often. I just found a copy of an old game Alien Legacy, so I am going to give it a run and see if I can recall how to play. It installed and runs with sound, not bad for a game that use DOS 5.0.

	14-05-2002 06:15									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Cptn. Proton dictatorship lithovore artifact home world subterran large home world => more than 500 science in turn 100 (robotic/pollution/supercomputer/cloning/...) You won't find much faster races out there :B

Instead of artifacts, i prefer +50% growth, In the large maps home world bonuses mean less in the end, and with growth you populate perimeter worlds SO quickly throughout the whole game with freighters

Another good subterranean race is:
aquatic, subterranean, unification, large homeworld, rich homeworld. You get a good jump in production in the beginning plus a Gaia homeworld to start. But there is always that small chance that the CNN will lower your mineral status to normal due to overworked miners...

	14-05-2002 07:59									#44
	Increase Your PM Length

bbest1, did I miss something or did you not use all of your points?
Ships + 50 (4)
rep (-6
large HW (1
Artifact HW (3
Dictator (0
Telepathic (6
ship def (-2
grnd comb (-2
leaves 6 pts does it not? Is this a 1.31 or 1.2 game? If 1.2 did you use the 6 for creative? It is 8 pts on 1.31
I put the 6 to pop +3 and sci +1, I think.
Nope it was pp and production.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 14-05-2002 at 08:14

	14-05-2002 11:16									#45
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Just in case some others are with out a manual and want to see the tech tree, I have attached one I put together. It has just the tech for each category (bio/comp etc) and the rp need to research it. I just finished it and it may not be perfect. I will break it down to each one seperately to make it easier to sort eventually. Any errors or finger checks let me know.

Attachment: techlist.txt
This has been downloaded 34 time(s).

Last edited by vmxa1 on 14-05-2002 at 21:10

	14-05-2002 22:37									#46
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Ok, last one. It is a single item tech list alpha with in each type (bio/chem..) within rp level. That is 50 rp for say construction will be in alpha order, then 80 rp, then 150 rp etc. This makes it easy to sort in any form you want. The original list by rp and all for that rp level as you see it in the research window.

Attachment: techlist_alpha.txt
This has been downloaded 26 time(s).

	15-06-2002 15:10									#47
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From the last game I played: Subteranian & Aquatic.

Lots of good worlds with large populations.

I'm in a habit of taking a large, rich Homeworld. (only 3 points)

	15-06-2002 22:49									#48
	Tired of ads?

What was the setup? Impossible, Hard? Map size? Players? I have never tried Aqua. I have used SubT a few times, when I wanted to run up my score. The reason I skip Sub is I play with 8 players and can find a race with Sub to grab. I land on one of their planets and start sending 1 pop to my worlds as soon as they are assimilated and BOOM, I now have that trait on that planet and its max pop increases. In other words, I would say that those points are better spent on something else. What ever you do, don't pick Feudal. Someone suggested it to me and it was a horror. Planets with 4 scientist netted 0 RP, due to the gov penalty and the low grav and morale. Cheap ships are no bargain.

	17-06-2002 07:47									#49
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I play a Huge Impossible 8 players game with your Aqua race. Actually I had stumbled across another post with one and used it. It was not a valid test as I was in the upper left corner and could only add one planet for the longest time as I was surrounded. War came soon and they were 10 systems to my 2. Prewarp and not creative so no planetary missiles, what a ***** it was. They would run as soon as I fired. I went to one planet cranking out spies and stole everything I could. Once I got Warp Dis I was able to whack some fleets. I finally won, but it was a nasty game. I woner how I would have faired with a better starting location?


Edit, whats with the **** for the word nasty????

	17-06-2002 10:38									#50
	Inflate your Upload Space

The setup was: Average, 6 players & Medium size.

The race stats I took were: Sub, Aqua, +1 pop growth, repulsive & others that I forget. In the game I ended up with planetary consruction & terraforming so worlds with 20+ pop were fairly common. I won fairly easily by taking out the Antarians so next time I'll crank the difficulty up a bit.

I hadn't played for a few years but I saw the combo on a MoO2 site and got interested again.

	07-07-2002 22:03									#51
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The races mentioned by Zealot and Proton are both very strong, I have grown to like the use of Repulsive as a negitive pick. On impossible, you tend to not have many friends and it does not stop leaders from showing up. I hate to take -spying on this level as it is hard to steal and hard to prevent it until you get all the spy techs. The two most deadly picks seem to be Uncreative and Fuedal. Yes you can win with them, but they are a big drag on your research.
Tolerant and Telepatch are very strong picks, while I never saw Cyber as worth much. It will not hurt you much, but it does not help you much either and is really of no value after the early game.
Unification is the most difficult to judge. It has strengths, but is not so easy to take advantage of as best as I have seen.

	13-07-2002 04:01									#52
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I use Elerians and keep their Omniscience and Telepathy. I replace Feudalism with Unification (modernized Elerians ). I give them a Malus in Ground Combat.

All of this fits logically together, making my Super-Elerians a very characteristic race. Note that Telepathy totally negates the Unification disadvantage (slow assimilation). Omniscience makes the decision: Whom to assimilate next? easier, and Ground Combat isnīt really needed when you have Telepathy.

This is so strong it is nearly unbeatable. It is also what Iīd do irl, if I had to assemble a race.

	13-07-2002 05:01									#53
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tribune I use Elerians and keep their Omniscience and Telepathy. I replace Feudalism with Unification (modernized Elerians ). I give them a Malus in Ground Combat. All of this fits logically together, making my Super-Elerians a very characteristic race. Note that Telepathy totally negates the Unification disadvantage (slow assimilation). Omniscience makes the decision: Whom to assimilate next? easier, and Ground Combat isnīt really needed when you have Telepathy. This is so strong it is nearly unbeatable. It is also what Iīd do irl, if I had to assemble a race.

Those picks are 3/6/6 -2. Did you keep the SA and SD 2/3 picks? What are the rest of the minus picks?
True -GC is a standard pick for any tele. I would submit that UniTelAqua LHW RHW is a stronger race. You do not need OmI as you can only go so far at the start anyway and will visit all in reach before anyone else. Aqua give you a boost in pop which is so useful. L/R HW gets you off the ground at the start so you can take advantage of the Tele. Uni I am not sold on, but it is not without merit. I do not need SA/SD boost, I will rely on my better tactics and getting ahead in tech by having more and better colonies eventually. Choose whatever minus you like. I often take minus to SD.

	14-07-2002 04:04									#54
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Did you keep the SA and SD 2/3 picks? What are the rest of the minus picks?

No, I didnīt. I got to even by adding a Minus to Taxes, I think.

	14-07-2002 04:57									#55
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I would submit that UniTelAqua LHW RHW is a stronger race.

Just tried that race. Took lowg, -GC, -1/2 food as negatives. Was very nice. Quick industry followed by quick conquest. I won on a large map using only lasers by around turn 220.

Nice picks vmxa1

	14-07-2002 07:41									#56
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Thanks, it was fun. If you want another easy time, I just did Dem/Creative/Aqua minus rep/-GC/-SD. I used Impossible /Huge/8/avg. I had not used avg tech much before.
BTW, I was never pushed in the game using this race. I finally attacked the larger AI and was not paying attention. I sent 11 BB and 6 Titans to a planet and boom they had 71 BB and 13 others. I took out 72 ships my first turn.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 14-07-2002 at 08:41

	14-07-2002 13:45									#57
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In any galaxy smaller than huge, a souped-up homeworld is a very attractive pic. In fact, I believe arifacts world may well be worth it even on huge.

	14-07-2002 21:36									#58
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True. I am not sure that they are so useful on lower difficulty settings, but on impossiblle (maybe even hard) that early boost is stong. On a huge map and say med setting, then a global pick is better. +1 R instead of AHW or L/RHW. This is because you do not need to get up and running as soon. The AI will not have those extra picks to hammer you with.

	24-07-2002 07:48									#59
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 That is why this game is so good, so many ways to play. BTW 656 turns 300 players eliminated 3162 pop (thanks MooM) 156 captured 262 tech 100 orion 250 antarans 4886 * 3.40 = 16612 Enough test for awhile.

Played as Rep so no surrenders/gives/recaptures
Huge map so I got 5385 pop and ran out to 24,327. Way too much work.

	24-07-2002 14:32									#60
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I've been playing with UniSubAqua with LHW and +1 production.
Negatives are Repulsive, Ground Combat and Ship Defense (on Impossible level, of course).

Guys, this race rocks on hard! You can outpop everyone by far with the colony base everywhere & housing technique! And with lots more population than everyone else, you can build a lot faster and research a lot faster!

You shold give it a try!
Oh, and on a multiplayer game, a 1v1 with Large galaxy size, this race is superb.