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devilmunchkin
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first circle of the inferno
Jul 2001
time: 05:13
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quote:
Is there something in the water? |
yeah: lots of cow poop. i'm not kidding. The STate of Texas keeps lowering is water standards for the sake of Waco...cause Waco would MISERABLY fail.
here's what the quality of waco's water is:
http://www.waco-texas.com/city_dept...ewacosupply.htm
notice how we have detection of fertilizers AND SEWAGE. WE also know the upstream from LAke waco are severage cow ranches. THe farmers allow their cows to take dumps in the lake...when you first move to waco..the water literally tastes like dirt.
http://www.wacotrib.com/auto/feed/n....7213.1300.html
and
http://www.txpeer.org/toxictour/erath.html
and
http://www.coxnews.com/newsservice/...COLUMN-COX.html
the list of sites goes on and on.
Maybe i'm just spoiled from being a san antonio girl, but i know we never had this sort of problem.
As far as killing a man because he doesn't have a warrant. that's preposterous! THis man began shooting at the cops before they ever got near to his home..he didn't know if they had a warrant or not. For all he knew, they might be asking about some incident in the surrounding community.
Killing a cop if he doesn't have a warrant is still murder..it would be the same if the cop killed an unarmed man..it's still murder.
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Tom201
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Amsterdam
Dec 2001
time: 05:13
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Ok, is that just your opinion or is that law in some US states?
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:13
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Well, I'm fairly sure that if a cop (in TX) fails to identify himself he's fair game. There USED to be case law allowing us to defend ourselves from cops, but that was unfortunately overturned. Other than that, my opinion, but one I see no problem in acting on - I'd have a clear conscience.
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Dr Strangelove
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Do you really think it's very likely that they didn't have the prope papers? Reposession is probably one of a cop's least loved activities. It's certainly not very glamorous. In fact many states leave reposession to private non-police persons. I doubt most cops would be interested in doing a repo job unless someone put the papers in his hands, forcing him to do it. It's more likely this paranoid individual felt that he had been cheated out of his tractor by some mysterious conspiracy and therefore felt entitled to use lethal force to defend it.
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Dr Strangelove
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Since they were searching for stolen property and not doing a repo job, I wouldn't think so. |
According to the story they were simply in the process of asking for permission to search the property when the man opened fire. It doesn't sound like jack booted government thugs were exactly breaking any doors down does it?
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Richelieu
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Gatineau
Dec 2001
time: 00:13
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Bunch o' sickos
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devilmunchkin
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first circle of the inferno
Jul 2001
time: 05:13
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quote:
Well, I'm fairly sure that if a cop (in TX) fails to identify himself he's fair game. |
the guy couldn't even get to the front door TO id himself. The guy was already in the surrounding hills snipping the police off. The guy KNEW what the police came for. The officer that was killed was a member of a special police task force for the county that is in charge of repossessing stolen automobiles (which includes farm equipment).
ok, let's look at this logically. what is the greater wrong here? illegal search or murder? duh! murder! what is more logical to do is this: if the cops come and illegally search, you sue the pants off them and make a nice profit off the city...not gun down some cop who is prolly acting (with or without warrant) from a higher up and has CHILDREN and a wife at home most likely. No warrant gives a person NO RIGHT to kill someone, it gives them the right to deny authority access to the property.
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devilmunchkin
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first circle of the inferno
Jul 2001
time: 05:13
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i'm not conservative (cause i'm promoting the life of a cop)...i'm realistic. the two wrongs are not an equal trade no matter how you look at it.
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:13
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quote:
ok, let's look at this logically. what is the greater wrong here? illegal search or murder? duh! murder! what is more logical to do is this: if the cops come and illegally search, you sue the pants off them and make a nice profit off the city...not gun down some cop who is prolly acting (with or without warrant) from a higher up and has CHILDREN and a wife at home most likely. No warrant gives a person NO RIGHT to kill someone, it gives them the right to deny authority access to the property. |
First off, I consider murder unjustified killing, and I don't believe it's unjustified to shoot someone who enters your home without your permission and attempts to search it or seize personal property.
If he is acting on orders, they are illegal orders, which he, as a law enforcement officer, has a duty to refuse, same as a soldier.
Finally, if deadly force is the only way to protect your property, I see no problem in applying it, whether it's a burgler or a cop acting illegally.
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Guynemer
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You're an embarassment.
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Dr Strangelove
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quote:
Originally posted by David Floyd
First off, I consider murder unjustified killing, and I don't believe it's unjustified to shoot someone who enters your home without your permission and attempts to search it or seize personal property.
If he is acting on orders, they are illegal orders, which he, as a law enforcement officer, has a duty to refuse, same as a soldier.
Finally, if deadly force is the only way to protect your property, I see no problem in applying it, whether it's a burgler or a cop acting illegally. |
According to the story he was at the door talking to a woman and was being given permission to search the property. I'm wondering, since the woman wasn't identified as a relative of his, who was she? Was this land even his property?
SO, DF, you'd shoot a cop just for being on your property without even warning him that you considered him to be trespassing?
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:13
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quote:
According to the story he was at the door talking to a woman and was being given permission to search the property. I'm wondering, since the woman wasn't identified as a relative of his, who was she? Was this land even his property?
SO, DF, you'd shoot a cop just for being on your property without even warning him that you considered him to be trespassing? |
No, I was not referring to the cop in the story dm posted 
quote:
*DING DONG*
David: Yes?
Cop: Hi Mr. Floyd. We've gotten reports of suspicious activity. Can we search the premesis?
David: Do you have a warrant?
Cop: No, we...
David: BLAM! |
No, a much better enactment would be:
*DING DONG*
David: Yes?
Cop: Hi Mr. Floyd. We've gotten reports of suspicious activity. Can we search the premesis?
David: Do you have a warrant?
Cop: No, but we need to search anyway.
David: Sorry, go get a warrant
Cop: I'm searching no matter what
David: No you are not, I will defend my property
Cop: *pushes by and comes in*
David: *draws gun* Get out.
Cop: *refuses repeatedly to leave, after repeated warnings that I'll shoot*
David: BLAM! *non-lethal wound if the cop does not try to use force against me, deadly force used if he does*
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Tom201
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Amsterdam
Dec 2001
time: 05:13
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Wouldnt be the cop allowed to shoot you the moment you point a gun at him?
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Guynemer
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We can only hope so.
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:13
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Look, I just see no difference between shooting a cop for illegal search and seizure (after fair warnings/refusals) and shooting a burglar for breaking and entering. I'd certainly feel morally justified no matter what the (immoral and blatantly unfair) law states.
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:13
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Well, if a burglar breaks in in the middle of the night you are entitled to assume danger to yourself.
Likewise, if a cop abuses his power, attempts to search or rob you illegally, you frankly have no idea how far he is going to go, and I think force is certainly justified, although unless he assaults you I'd go for a non-lethal gunshot wound or preferably just beat his ass, take his weapon, and throw him out.
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devilmunchkin
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first circle of the inferno
Jul 2001
time: 05:13
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quote:
Well, if a burglar breaks in in the middle of the night you are entitled to assume danger to yourself. |
well duh! that's in the middle of the night! A cop will be coming during the day and if you know anything about police, it's that the street cops get orders from higher up. i've said this already in the thread but you chose to ignore it. If a street cop says "no" to any authority, they kick his arse to the curb and he'll be blacklisted. simple as that. That puts a man, who most likely has a wife and kids, out of a job. Therefore, say this cop IS coming illegally....like everyone else on the board has told you: it's wrong to take a life in the way you are depicting. you're not shooting a cop..you're killing a person. and i'm sorry, a person is more important than any property. what you do is you get evidence of when the dude is there..like video tape him then sue the city. you do not kill him!
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05-05-2002 03:26
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