06-05-2002 21:12									#61
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I cant think of many legitimate uses for a an armour-piercing bullet (maybe If I wanted to knock out a car engine). The problem is that the anti-gun-nuts have become so vocal and powerful in some states that the gun-nuts have drawn that line. I suspect that they see it in a "give an inch lose a mile" kind of way.

Personally I feel safer here in a state essentially without gun regulation than I would in States with rigid gun controls (where only the criminals have guns). Its worth the effort to be polite in a state where virtually everyone is armed

	06-05-2002 21:18									#62
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH I cant think of many legitimate uses for a an armour-piercing bullet (maybe If I wanted to knock out a car engine). The problem is that the anti-gun-nuts have become so vocal and powerful in some states that the gun-nuts have drawn that line. I suspect that they see it in a "give an inch lose a mile" kind of way. Personally I feel safer here in a state essentially without gun regulation than I would in States with rigid gun controls (where only the criminals have guns). Its worth the effort to be polite in a state where virtually everyone is armed

OMG


The backward South --- you guys just did not learn ANYTHING good out of the Civil War, did you??

I would be scared living in any state that has lax, or no gun regulations.

	06-05-2002 22:59									#63
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd I don't consider myself extreme, but many would.

He just can't think of any libertarian position that is too extreme for him. NOTE! This doesn't mean he's an extremist. Could just be a thinking problem. I mean what do you expect from some beer-guzzling liberal arts UT student...

	06-05-2002 23:09									#64
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun You do a fine job in appalling us sensible moderate-liberals as well. Keep up the good work, and you might end up without my protection from the next Apolyton lynch mob.

Just because Floyd is 30% gay doesn't mean you can flirt so shamelessly with him.

	06-05-2002 23:12									#65
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"Abolishing foreign aid"

Why do you like foreign aid Imran? I'm a centrist and I think it was a bad idea to begin with.

"I believe....almost everything I read...."

-David St. Hubbins

	07-05-2002 04:12									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Just because Floyd is 30% gay doesn't mean you can flirt so shamelessly with him.

Where's the puking smilie?? I could use that right now to visualize how I reacted to this comment.

	07-05-2002 04:35									#67
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by MrFun You do a fine job in appalling us sensible moderate-liberals as well. Keep up the good work, and you might end up without my protection from the next Apolyton lynch mob.

Excuse me Mr. Fun, but as far as I know I'm the only poster on this forum from Lynch....(burg), and I have never given anyone here reason to fear for life or limb. Perhaps it's those Iowa Cornholers.......er, I mean Cornhuskers who might be willing to act on a grudge against Mr. Floyd, so speak for yourself!

	07-05-2002 07:34									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Excuse me Mr. Fun, but as far as I know I'm the only poster on this forum from Lynch....(burg), and I have never given anyone here reason to fear for life or limb. Perhaps it's those Iowa Cornholers.......er, I mean Cornhuskers who might be willing to act on a grudge against Mr. Floyd, so speak for yourself!

Hey now -- don't go barking at me for my joke -- no seriousness was intended.

Southerners might be backward, but they're still loveable in a strange, twisted way.

	07-05-2002 07:56									#69
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We can get guynemer to ream him out...

Last edited by TCO on 07-05-2002 at 08:04

	07-05-2002 07:59									#70
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quote: Why do you like foreign aid Imran? I'm a centrist and I think it was a bad idea to begin with.

It's a very good idea, if placed in infrastructure: education, health care.

	07-05-2002 08:09									#71
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Imran read The Ugly American. It will open your eyes to the patheticness of most foreign aid.

	07-05-2002 08:12									#72
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Unfortunately, most foreign aid goes to either military budgets or into the pockets of unscrupulous, corrupt dictators.

	07-05-2002 08:21									#73
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Exactly... we need more accountability. And a true plan.

	07-05-2002 08:38									#74
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quote: Originally posted by GP We can get guynemer to ream him out...

Beg pardon? It's late and I can't be arsed to read through this whole thread...

	07-05-2002 08:40									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Why do you like foreign aid Imran? I'm a centrist and I think it was a bad idea to begin with. It's a very good idea, if placed in infrastructure: education, health care.

A few years ago, we had a thread on foreign aid. I was advocating limiting foreign aid to the building infrastructure: seaports, airports, hydroelectric dams, roads, railroads, bridges, irregations projects, etc. Monk convinced me we should further limit our aid to projects to those where the benefitting country puts up matching dollars. He'd done a lot of work in the Third World and had observed that when we just give something, it's not highly thought of and sometimes even resented. However, when we're in partnership with the host country, then the feelings are those of comradeship.

	08-05-2002 14:49									#76
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So what counts as extremism?

	08-05-2002 14:51									#77
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Anything that isn't moderate, where the center is what is currently accepted as being the center. It's all about point of view. After the world revolution, communist tendencies will no longer be considered extremely leftist, they'll just be normal. And good anyway. Then the extreme left will be those who demand a revolution into transcendentalism. And after that, politics don#t exist anymore. There will be only zen left.

	08-05-2002 14:54									#78
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Okay. So my question is now where is the centre?

	08-05-2002 16:24									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Okay. So my question is now where is the centre?

Own goal!!!

	08-05-2002 17:37									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Sava 1. Without regulation on guns, society would turn into the old West. Only instead of six-shooters, everyone would have assault rifles. And since the frontier towns are cities now, there would be many times over the amount of violence. David, even with gun regulation, over 30,000 people a year are shot to death in the US. The US has the highest per capita murder rate of any Western Nation, and also the least restrictive gun laws.

Would you care to back up the claim that over 30,000 people are shot to death in the U.S. each year? I can help you, check out the DOJ website http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homici...weaponstab.htm, it has the statistics. Btw, the top year was 1993 with 13,981.

	08-05-2002 17:42									#81
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun OMG The backward South --- you guys just did not learn ANYTHING good out of the Civil War, did you??

How is this relevant?

quote: Originally posted by MrFun I would be scared living in any state that has lax, or no gun regulations.

You are scared by an idea more than reality? States with less gun regulation are safer than states with more. Gun regulations are symptoms of failed law enforcement efforts.

	08-05-2002 17:43									#82
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quote: The page cannot be found The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable

Is that table the numbers murdered with each type of weapon? I can see the number being ~14000 then. If you include accidents, suicides, and justifiable homicides then the number rises to ~25000, IIRC.

	08-05-2002 17:51									#83
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun David Floyd, my favorite nemesis --- there is no legitimacy in cop-killer bullets. Law-abiding citizens -- for the most part, have no need to kill cops.

It's funny, but no one here seems to know what a "cop-killer" bullet is. It is simply an armor piercing bullet, trotted out as the next huge threat to destroy civilzation by the anti-gun lobby. Charles Shumer and company obviously got their money's worth on that one, as evidenced by it's mention (years later) in this thread. Amusingly if I were a cop I would hope that anyone shooting at me would be armed with AP ammunition, as it does less damage than hunting ammunition, unless you are riding in a halftrack. Almost all rifle ammunition will whiz right through a "bullet-proof" (Kevlar) vest btw, so I guess every round of rifle ammunition deserves this sobriquet. Propoganda never ceases to amaze me, tell them a lie and they will remember it forever.

	08-05-2002 17:54									#84
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse quote: The page cannot be found The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable Is that table the numbers murdered with each type of weapon? I can see the number being ~14000 then. If you include accidents, suicides, and justifiable homicides then the number rises to ~25000, IIRC.

Try this one:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/weapons.htm

and follow the link by weapon. Homocides btw include justifiable shootings and I believe suicides as well. Fatal accidents are around 600 per year IIRC.

	08-05-2002 17:56									#85
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun The backward South --- you guys just did not learn ANYTHING good out of the Civil War, did you?? I would be scared living in any state that has lax, or no gun regulations.

Were you refering to the war of northern aggression?

	08-05-2002 18:01									#86
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Are you sure about that? I did a pretty quick search around and couldn't find any definition. It being a Department of Justice website also leads me to believe that they aren't including non-criminal killings.

	08-05-2002 18:02									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander It's funny, but no one here seems to know what a "cop-killer" bullet is. It is simply an armor piercing bullet, trotted out as the next huge threat to destroy civilzation by the anti-gun lobby. Charles Shumer and company obviously got their money's worth on that one, as evidenced by it's mention (years later) in this thread. Amusingly if I were a cop I would hope that anyone shooting at me would be armed with AP ammunition, as it does less damage than hunting ammunition, unless you are riding in a halftrack. Almost all rifle ammunition will whiz right through a "bullet-proof" (Kevlar) vest btw, so I guess every round of rifle ammunition deserves this sobriquet. Propoganda never ceases to amaze me, tell them a lie and they will remember it forever.

The point is not whether rifle ammunition can penetrate a bullet proof vest, but whether there are legitimate uses for AP ammunition for handguns. I really cant think of any (many).

The answer to Schumer and his ilk, is for the NRA to request that the manufacturers stop making such ammunition. It pulls Schumers horns and may save the life of a few policemen.

	08-05-2002 18:04									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander It's funny, but no one here seems to know what a "cop-killer" bullet is. It is simply an armor piercing bullet, trotted out as the next huge threat to destroy civilzation by the anti-gun lobby. Charles Shumer and company obviously got their money's worth on that one, as evidenced by it's mention (years later) in this thread. Amusingly if I were a cop I would hope that anyone shooting at me would be armed with AP ammunition, as it does less damage than hunting ammunition, unless you are riding in a halftrack. Almost all rifle ammunition will whiz right through a "bullet-proof" (Kevlar) vest btw, so I guess every round of rifle ammunition deserves this sobriquet. Propoganda never ceases to amaze me, tell them a lie and they will remember it forever.

Just wondering...
Why would anyone not planning to shoot a cop would like to get his hand on a piercing armor bullet ?

	08-05-2002 18:11									#89
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Since handguns are owned for self-defence the use of AP ammunition is obvious. What if the criminal that atacks you wears some sort of Armor?

	08-05-2002 18:16									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Tom201 Since handguns are owned for self-defence the use of AP ammunition is obvious. What if the criminal that atacks you wears some sort of Armor?

Aaaaah yes, I forgot the possibility of an attack by the 6th division of the Heavily Armed Terrorist Army !