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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:19
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The dreamcast wasn't exactly successful in North America, and Sega was extremely low on cash with the DC. Not so with MS.  Hell, they're still releasing DreamCast games in Japan. It was quite successful there.
Sony is still selling more, but you guys keep looking at the short term.
Sony's press briefing was pretty sad, they showed (at best) B-level first party games. That means all of the good games for PS2 tend to be third party, which means they tend to go multiplatform in upgraded forms on Xbox and GCN.
And if you'd look in the long term, PS2 sales are declining while Xbox and GCN sales are rising (in ALL regions).
There's a bunch of Japanese RPGs and other exclusive Japanese games in development for the Japanese Xbox, and Microsoft doesn't expect it to sell very well over there until that happens.
Sony's riding on the tailcoats of the PSX support. They got everyone so hyped up about the PS2 when it came out, even though first gen PS2 games looked WORSE than Dreamcast games. Now they've convinced so many people (30M) it's such the greatest thing in the world it'll be around for the whole generation.
But as games look and sound better on other consoles, less and less people will buy PS2s and PS2 games and more of the real next-gen consoles. It's inevitable.
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Wiglaf
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Cambridge
Dec 2000
time: 23:19
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quote:
The dreamcast wasn't exactly successful in North America, |
Really? It had one hell of a launch, I thought. Although almost everything for the damn box was first party I suppose.
quote:
Sony's press briefing was pretty sad, they showed (at best) B-level first party games. That means all of the good games for PS2 tend to be third party, which means they tend to go multiplatform in upgraded forms on Xbox and GCN. |
With the news that GTA won't be multiplatform at all, and the word out of EA that Madden 2003 will be online for PS2 only, you can't say Sony's out of the running just yet, or that their console is a fraud.
I got an XBox a while back from some sick bastard friend of mine intent on making up for his earlier outrageous behavior aimed sharply and pissily against my "Ring in the New Year with a Bang" party interests. I've only played one game for it, Halo, and I really thought it kicked some serious ass. The hard drive alone could end up saving $50-100 if someone started to really advantage of it. Needless to say, finding any true value in a videogame console by Microsoft shocked the living crap out of me, and I'd imagine if more people got their hands on the thing just for a test drive as I did, sales would be off the charts.
Anyway, some solid and in-depth sales figure links (for Japan of all places) would really help end this argument.
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Urban Ranger
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Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
You don't know the first thing about the Xbox, its games, or anything else about consoles. What you know is its MS, so you predicted (hoped) it would fail. |
Now how the hell would you know what I do or do not know about Xbox, Xbox games, or consoles? Silly sod.
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
It's surpassed everyone's wildest expectations (last year at E3 they didn't even think it'd launch) and continues to sell well in North America especially |
1. Who're "they?"
2. If it can't sell in NA MS might as well hang up its boots 
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
and has just quadrupled its sales in the ailing Japanese market as of last week (which is pretty good considering the first real Japanese games are still about 6-8 months away). |
Hm.
4 x 1 = 4. Very big deal, that. 
Seriously, MS loses money for each Xbox unit sold. They can only make it back via game sales. Not having even a game ready to sell is sheer silliness.
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Originally posted by Asher
And of course (duh) it's the games that count. You're not being insightful here like you seem to think you are. |
Yeah? While most other people such as yourself were going about how the Xbox "wll rulez" because of better graphics?
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Originally posted by Asher
But having awesome graphics and awesome sound does not detract from gameplay. Rather, it can enhance it by being more immersive. |
Why would I want to get an Xbox when I have a PC? I can get graphics that is just as good if not better, and a PC can do everything the Xbox can, plus a whole lot more.
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Originally posted by Asher
I can't stand the people who think good graphics and sound are mutually exclusive with good gameplay. |
Did I say that? My word, your silliness is boundless.
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Originally posted by Asher
That idea mostly stems from PlayStation 2 fanboys who try to convince themselves of that very idea. |
Good to see that you know a whole lot about PS2 fanboys, almost as much as you know about my knowledge of the Xbox, Xbox games, and consoles in general. 
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
200+ Xbox games, 150+ Gamecube games to come by year end. |
That's nice, we'll just have to wait for the end of the year to see if there really will be 200+ games for the Xbox now.
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Originally posted by Asher
The "vast library" excuse for PS2 is going down the drain. |
Maybe, maybe not. Meanwhile, that library is still giving PS2 a leg up.
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Now how the hell would you know what I do or do not know about Xbox, Xbox games, or consoles? Silly sod. |
If it's anything like Windows XP, I'm pretty sure my grandmother knows more than you do on it.
Industry observers, EGM, Sony, Nintendo...
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Seriously, MS loses money for each Xbox unit sold. They can only make it back via game sales. Not having even a game ready to sell is sheer silliness. |
Um. Look at your first statement here that I quoted from you about your Xbox Knowledge. Now admit I'm right.
It launched with 20 titles in Japan. You're right, it would be completely silly to launch it without a single game. Pretty silly to the point where I'm thinking "how can you honestly think a company would do that?" to you, UR.
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Yeah? While most other people such as yourself were going about how the Xbox "wll rulez" because of better graphics? |
It's not JUST about better graphics.
It's about capabilities.
Hard drive. Ethernet. Fastest GPU. Best sound.
Now you add in awesome developers (Tim Schaeffer(sp?)), the SONIC Team, Team Ninja of Tecmo, Digital Anvil, Bunjie, Peter Moleneaux, John Carmack, Gabe Newell, Tim Sweeney, etc. and watch it all come together. Great gameplay AND great graphics.
Neither console is inherently better for gameplay, so when comparing the hardware we tend to focus on tangible things and possibilities for gameplay. Comprende?
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Why would I want to get an Xbox when I have a PC? I can get graphics that is just as good if not better, and a PC can do everything the Xbox can, plus a whole lot more. |
While true, the equivalent PC is far more expensive than $199US. Guaranteed.
It also doesn't work well with HDTVs, home audio receivers, and four controllers. Yes, I realize you CAN do it, but next to nobody does.
Console gaming and PC gaming are inherently different. You're a fool if you can't see the difference.
There's also the problem on PC of hassle (patches, for one), you're forced to upgrade your video card every 2 years to play the recent games (consoles last 4-5), and developers tend to develop for the "lowest common denominator" for PC hardware, which is probably GeForce 1 for gamers now.
Console gaming is largely a social experience, playing with your friends in the same room on a big screen. Console games tend to be more straightforward and mindless fun than PC games, and have a simple gamepad to control it.
I own a high end PC (Athlon XP 2100+, GeForce 4 Ti4600) and an Xbox and a PS2. PS2 is basically collecting dust now, Xbox and PC both get heavy use. For different things.
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Did I say that? My word, your silliness is boundless. |
Did I say you did?
Now who's being silly? 
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Good to see that you know a whole lot about PS2 fanboys, almost as much as you know about my knowledge of the Xbox, Xbox games, and consoles in general. |
Judging from this thread you know next to nothing about Xboxes.
And yes, I know a whole lot about PS2 fanboys.
1) I own a computer
2) I deal with PS2 fanboys every day 
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That's nice, we'll just have to wait for the end of the year to see if there really will be 200+ games for the Xbox now. |
Try looking at the E3 previews/reviews/news. MS and third parties are announcing games left and right and so far have stolen the show.
quote:
Maybe, maybe not. Meanwhile, that library is still giving PS2 a leg up. |
PS2 has 250 games right now. Supposed to have 400 by year's end. Xbox will have 200 at year's end.
Take into account that, by that time, the PS2 would have been on the market for 2.5 years and Xbox for 1 year, and that's quite an astonishing difference, no?
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Urban Ranger
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Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
If it's anything like Windows XP, I'm pretty sure my grandmother knows more than you do on it. |
Maybe. The thing is XP is not a priority for any commercial firms with established IT infrastructure, esp. now that Microsoft is going to screw the customers even more. W2K acceptance remains very limited, let alone XP. So forgive me if we decided to stick with NT with service packs while looking for cheaper alternatives.
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Um. Look at your first statement here that I quoted from you about your Xbox Knowledge. Now admit I'm right. |
Oh really? This is what you said:
"...and has just quadrupled its sales in the ailing Japanese market as of last week (which is pretty good considering the first real Japanese games are still about 6-8 months away)."
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
It launched with 20 titles in Japan. You're right, it would be completely silly to launch it without a single game. Pretty silly to the point where I'm thinking "how can you honestly think a company would do that?" to you, UR. |
Did you say that MS hasn't got a real Japanese game or did I say that? Who cares if it has got English games? You're talking about the Japanese market here. Games need to be in Japanese.
Silly sod.
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
It's not JUST about better graphics.
It's about capabilities. |
As I said, who cares? Games, games, and games. Without games, consoles are just expensive paper weights.
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Neither console is inherently better for gameplay, so when comparing the hardware we tend to focus on tangible things and possibilities for gameplay. Comprende? |
What people do compare is which one has better games. Many of them don't even know anything about the hardware specs.
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
While true, the equivalent PC is far more expensive than $199US. Guaranteed.
It also doesn't work well with HDTVs, home audio receivers, and four controllers. Yes, I realize you CAN do it, but next to nobody does. |
Sure, PCs are more expensive but you get a lot more capabilities. They can do anything the Xbox can do, plus a lot more. And PC games are better.
HDTV - my monitor has better resolution
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Console gaming and PC gaming are inherently different. You're a fool if you can't see the difference. |
Consoles might be lower powered, so that llimits the sort of games that can be played, particularly when those consoles have no permanent storage. However, there is no reason why personal computers can't run console games. MAME shows that it can be done. If a console game is not available for the PC, it is merely a marketing ploy.
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
There's also the problem on PC of hassle (patches, for one), you're forced to upgrade your video card every 2 years to play the recent games (consoles last 4-5), and developers tend to develop for the "lowest common denominator" for PC hardware, which is probably GeForce 1 for gamers now. |
Not really. The graphics card for our Wintel biox is still the Matrox G200, nothing spectacular. We can play any game we want to play, however, including some of the recent ones.
If we run into a game that requires a heftier graphics card, upgrading still won't cost more than USD200, the price of an Xbox.
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Console gaming is largely a social experience, playing with your friends in the same room on a big screen. |
While that may be the case, how often you play console games with a group and how often you do it solo?
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Console games tend to be more straightforward and mindless fun than PC games, and have a simple gamepad to control it. |
While that may be the case, nothing stops PC games to be mindless and straight forward. Hm, Quake comes to mind.
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
I own a high end PC (Athlon XP 2100+, GeForce 4 Ti4600) and an Xbox and a PS2. PS2 is basically collecting dust now, Xbox and PC both get heavy use. For different things. |
So you're saying your parents are in the dope. Anything else?
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Did I say you did?
Now who's being silly? |
If you did not at least imply that's the case, why did you raise the point? 
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Judging from this thread you know next to nothing about Xboxes. |
Judging from your judgment in the Microsoft anti-trust case, your judgment is not credible.
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
And yes, I know a whole lot about PS2 fanboys.
1) I own a computer
2) I deal with PS2 fanboys every day |
Almost as much as you do about MS fanboys, eh?
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Try looking at the E3 previews/reviews/news. MS and third parties are announcing games left and right and so far have stolen the show. |
Previews don't mean crap. Game announcements mean even less.
Only when the games are actually delievered to retailers do they count.
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
PS2 has 250 games right now. Supposed to have 400 by year's end. Xbox will have 200 at year's end. |
I don't give much weight to Sony's side of game announcement either.
If they have it, great. If not, it's no skin off my back.
We veteran gamers now ignore this kind of marketing ploys.
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Oh really? This is what you said:
"...and has just quadrupled its sales in the ailing Japanese market as of last week (which is pretty good considering the first real Japanese games are still about 6-8 months away)." |
Yes, genius, like Shenmue II, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Ninja Gaiden, Phantasy Star Online, etc.
I mean games that are more or less made by Japanese and targeted for Japanese people. The launch titles were all American games.
quote:
Did you say that MS hasn't got a real Japanese game or did I say that? Who cares if it has got English games? You're talking about the Japanese market here. Games need to be in Japanese.
Silly sod. |
You're being very dense lately, you know that?
Are you taking your herbal medicine?
See my above comment on Japanese games.
OBVIOUSLY the games are translated and ported to run on non-NTSC systems when sold in Japan. I was relying on some basic intelligence for you to figure that out -- won't happen again.
quote:
As I said, who cares? Games, games, and games. Without games, consoles are just expensive paper weights. |
200 is not enough for you?
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What people do compare is which one has better games. Many of them don't even know anything about the hardware specs. |
Okay, so why isn't SNES selling more than PS2? It had way more games, and they were all better.
There are great games on all consoles -- that much is fact. Anyone who says otherwise is bullshitting you.
quote:
Sure, PCs are more expensive but you get a lot more capabilities. They can do anything the Xbox can do, plus a lot more. And PC games are better.
HDTV - my monitor has better resolution |
Your monitor is a helluva lot smaller.
And, UR, this may be a difficult concept for you to grasp, but let's try anyway. Not everyone enjoys playing PC games. Some of us enjoy laying back on the couch in the living room playing on the big screen once in a while as well. Consoles do not replace PCs, they supplement. Stop trolling.
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Consoles might be lower powered, so that llimits the sort of games that can be played, particularly when those consoles have no permanent storage. |
Oh, how did I even bother to question your Xbox knowledge before?
You do know that the Xbox has a hard drive, right?
quote:
However, there is no reason why personal computers can't run console games. MAME shows that it can be done. If a console game is not available for the PC, it is merely a marketing ploy. |
No one has ever said otherwise, you're setting up a strawman (as you always do, then proclaim it's everyone else doing the strawman bit).
Consoles are for living rooms, PCs are for dens.
I like both, depending on the type of game and what I'm feeling like that day.
Do you understand?
quote:
Not really. The graphics card for our Wintel biox is still the Matrox G200, nothing spectacular. We can play any game we want to play, however, including some of the recent ones.
If we run into a game that requires a heftier graphics card, upgrading still won't cost more than USD200, the price of an Xbox. |
Run the Commanche 4 and Unreal Performance Test benchmarks on your system, see if it can even hit 10fps at 800x600. Even with a $200 video card, go ahead and try it. Seriously.
Have you also tried Morrowind? It runs like ass on my GeForce 3. The new Athlon rig + GF4 Ti4600 is the only system in the house it runs at a stable framerate on.
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While that may be the case, how often you play console games with a group and how often you do it solo? |
About half half, honestly.
My brother and I play a lot (coop Halo, Halo deathmatches, DOA3, Tony Hawk 3, Rallisport, FIFA world cup, NHL2002, what have you).
And even then, single player is a much different experience on the big screen with surround sound than hunched over a computer monitor. Like I said, I play both. Depending on my mood and the game.
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So you're saying your parents are in the dope. Anything else? |
I pay for all of my games, all of my computers, all of my consoles.
It's called having a job that pays very well.
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Judging from your judgment in the Microsoft anti-trust case, your judgment is not credible. |
Are we in first grade again?
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Almost as much as you do about MS fanboys, eh? |
Almost.
You'd be amazed at how many Xbox fanboys insist that the PS2 has no good games, etc.
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Previews don't mean crap. Game announcements mean even less.
Only when the games are actually delievered to retailers do they count. |
Okay, so try again in a couple months.
These previews and announcements were shown and played by game press/developers at E3, so they're not vapourware like you may be implying.
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We veteran gamers now ignore this kind of marketing ploys. |
You've got a Matrox G200, how dare you call yourself a gamer.
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23-05-2002 00:18
and prices dropping faster, technology defeloping faster but maybe console industry becomes like PC's I can see them merging already with conslole beinf the lowest order |PC and a good bargain as all of them seem to be making a loss (maybe not Nintendo) na vbelieve they can recuperate it from sale of games. 
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