25-05-2002 05:46									#91
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Well I guess this may illustrate my point of view. He should continue loving her, whats changed? I'm sure it would be a shock, but either you care or you dont.

Except that, undoubtedly, their love was built on a lie. See my above post. If you HONESTLY think you would feel the same way about someone you were dating/in love with who then turned out to be the opposite gender from what he claimed/pretended to be, I will say I think you're nuts.

How could the man in this situation ever trust the other again? Wouldn't you be FURIOUS over such deceit? I would, I freely admit it. And I would have a right to be furious.

	25-05-2002 06:45									#92
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I did think about the lying part, but... Maybe it just wasn't a very good example after all... But then again, you're making a good point, Boris:

quote: If you HONESTLY think you would feel the same way about someone you were dating/in love with who then turned out to be the opposite gender from what he claimed/pretended to be, I will say I think you're nuts.

And the claiming/pretending bit isn't even that crucial I think. If you find out ANYTHING about the one you're dating/in love with that doesn't stroke with the person you thought he/she was, SOMETHING will change in you and your relationship. How that change will eventually affect the relationship is another matter. Some people may decide it's not such a big deal after all, some people may find it too much of a problem to continue.

quote: Well I guess this may illustrate my point of view. He should continue loving her, whats changed? I'm sure it would be a shock, but either you care or you dont.

So would you rather "give up" your heterosexuality than admit that something rather essential came up between you two?

How about cheating then? Two people have a marvellous relationship, except one of them has someone "on the side". If the other found out, would you find it normal if that person wouldn't mind, since the relationship was going so well anyway?

	25-05-2002 07:26									#93
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"You are so going to get dumped."

YAR he is. I think he is. I would if I was his girlfriend. Even if I wasn't bi.
Reading this thread, only one thought went through my head, over and over - I'm so very, very happy I'm me.

	25-05-2002 07:58									#94
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if bisexuals only dated those we can "relate" to we'd only be dating each other.

Monkspider, your gf may not know that she is bi and that could be why your picking up on "clues" yet she's said all the other girls do it. Your admitted dislike of dating bi's will probably not create a friendly space for her to examine why she gets all ga ga over Brittany and skin flicks.

	25-05-2002 08:17									#95
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quote: Originally posted by BunnyGrrl if bisexuals only dated those we can "relate" to we'd only be dating each other.

I don't know what you mean by "relate," but if you're saying you can't relate to gays/heterosexuals, I'd be surprised. But even so, why should anyone feel compelled to date someone they don't want to date? I still haven't gotten a clear answer on this.

quote: Monkspider, your gf may not know that she is bi and that could be why your picking up on "clues" yet she's said all the other girls do it. Your admitted dislike of dating bi's will probably not create a friendly space for her to examine why she gets all ga ga over Brittany and skin flicks.

So he shouldn't ask or find out for sure? Nope, it's too late. The seed has been planted in his mind, and unless he achieves some resolution on it, it will gnaw at him and sour the relationship anyway.

	25-05-2002 10:23									#96
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Well, I would like again like to thank Boris et al for their support and I am happy to report that the discussion went very well. I am also very happy to report that my girfriend has made it clear, in no uncertain terms, that she has no sexual attraction to girls. She says that her statements that Britney is pretty and so forth can be explained as wanting to be like her, not wanting to "do her". You may recall also that I fretted over a statement that she made over her watching lots of softcores inthe past. She assured me that she hasn't watched porn in 5 or 6 years, and she only watched them when she was young and curious about sex.
So in close, I wasn't dumped, and I think the discussion went very well. So it seems that, as luck would have it, maybe I really was lucky enough to meet a girl perfectly-suited to my tastes.
I would like to thank friends like Boris, Jon, Fun, et al, for their much-appreciated support.

	25-05-2002 10:33									#97
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So, monkspyder, has any of this helped you? I find it kinda warm and fuzzy that you can come to people you've probably never seen and share this rather personal shiznit comfortably. And that, on top of that you have gotten, along w/ a few wisecracks and naughty innuendos, have such an overwhelming, sincerely supportive response. And then, there are people who read the title of your post and thought, "This is a problem?" who had to jump in & check it out. I fall into both catagories at the same time. Anyway, hope it works out one way or another to your advantage, and if not, well you'lle be ok anyhoos.


PS Lucky little bastard

	25-05-2002 10:41									#98
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thanks for the kind words vic, I think everything is going to work out just fine between me and the honey now.
I'll keep up the good fight for the Incas to appear in Civ 3 in the PTW forum in the meantime.

	25-05-2002 10:46									#99
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider -A penchant for softcore porn (which is of course, primarily, naked girls dancing and lesbian action), definitely something that has been seen as entertainment for guys, for the most part. -A fixation on Britney Spears, frequently commenting on how "cute" she is and even saying Britney is cuter than a Mickey Mouse snowman I had gotten her (:eek. Therefore, I have been led to believe this goes beyond a simple admiration of her. - She reads Maxim and some other "men's" magazines and comments on how attractive or unattractive she feels the girls are. -Just lots of general comments on how cute certain girls are.

You don't have a lot of girl experience, do you?

	25-05-2002 10:50									#100
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Hi everyone, I have a problem...unfortunately I think my boyfriend may be attracted to guys as well as girls...

-He loves to watch pro-wrestling and professional boxing, as well as toughman competitions and the World's Strongest man. He seems to be obsessed with watching muscular men wearing next to nothing getting physical.
-He often chats with his guy friends about who has the biggest penis
-He enjoys listening to the deep-voiced Barry Manelow when we make love.
-He goes to the gym often, sometimes with friends, and comes back sweaty and horny.

What should I do?!?!

~Monkspider's girlfriend









(all in good fun, i hope you know )

	25-05-2002 10:53									#101
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Oh, I don't know, I was always a chubby kid until I was about 17, so my experiences with girls may have started a little bit later than most guys. But for being a Civ-playing-nerd-type, I consider my experience with those of the fairer sex to be respectable enough.

	25-05-2002 10:56									#102
	Re: monkspider's girlfriend on her message board of choice... Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by orange Hi everyone, I have a problem...unfortunately I think my boyfriend may be attracted to guys as well as girls... -He loves to watch pro-wrestling and professional boxing, as well as toughman competitions and the World's Strongest man. He seems to be obsessed with watching muscular men wearing next to nothing getting physical. -He often chats with his guy friends about who has the biggest penis -He enjoys listening to the deep-voiced Barry Manelow when we make love. -He goes to the gym often, sometimes with friends, and comes back sweaty and horny. What should I do?!?! ~Monkspider's girlfriend (all in good fun, i hope you know )

Yeah, yeah, yeah, in hindsight I may have been making a mountain out of a molehill but at least in the end I think everything worked out for the best. I can certainly sleep a lot easier at least.

	25-05-2002 11:00									#103
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perhaps you're simply nervous about moving intogether? and your subconscious is creating methods of escape, even if you don't plan to use them?

	25-05-2002 11:08									#104
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Hmm, common sense may indicate that to be true, but in spite of this I must heartily insist that I just *REALLY* don't want a bi girlfriend.

	25-05-2002 11:10									#105
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now why is that?

	25-05-2002 11:14									#106
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hmm, after much ebb and flow on this long thread, I don't think we ever quite figured it out.
I think it would be best compared it to how some guys simply will not date girls who smoke or perhaps how some guys simply can't possibly be attracted to red-heads no matter what.
In short, I simply don't have the answer.

	25-05-2002 11:16									#107
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but there are reasons for it...

I don't want to date a girl that smokes because i view cigarettes as a waste of money, a cause of bad breath and yellow nails, and a painful nuisance of smoke while they do it.

Bisexuals, however, have no such side effects.

	25-05-2002 11:17									#108
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quote: Originally posted by orange Bisexuals, however, have no such side effects...

....that I'm aware of

	25-05-2002 11:22									#109
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, well I am a rather outspoken supporter of gay/bisexual rights on this board. So I hate to seem like I'm being close-minded on this subject. But by whatever stroke of randomness that causes such things, I simply don't want a bi girlfriend. In fact, by this same stroke of randomness, I *REALLY* don't want one.

	25-05-2002 11:24									#110
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are you afraid that a girl is more likely to cheat on you if she's bisexual?

Rules of thumb -

A) trust people until they give you a reason not to trust them.
B) Don't trust many people

I'm kinda curious what it is, even though I'm not involved...you seem quite vocal about this...why should you not love the girl just becuase she turns out to be bisexual?

	25-05-2002 11:32									#111
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Well I don't mean to suggest that bisexuals are unworthy of love or anything of that nature. Quite on the contrary, in fact this thread has shown quite ably that there are more than enough willing suiters for bisexual girls. But it is simply not a trait I would want in a lifelong significant other. I'm sorry I can't give you a more concise answer Orange.

	25-05-2002 11:52									#112
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Spencer, I hope your questions have been answered.

Besides, you would not accuse a white man for not wanting to enter a marriage potential relationship with a black woman, or a Hispanic woman would you of being a racist would you?

Mono-racial relationships do not necessarily indicate that one or the other in the relationship is a racist.

And I'm sorry I could not give you a more concrete reason for my case with bisexual men.

	25-05-2002 19:22									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Mercator quote: Well I guess this may illustrate my point of view. He should continue loving her, whats changed? I'm sure it would be a shock, but either you care or you dont. So would you rather "give up" your heterosexuality than admit that something rather essential came up between you two? How about cheating then? Two people have a marvellous relationship, except one of them has someone "on the side". If the other found out, would you find it normal if that person wouldn't mind, since the relationship was going so well anyway?

I've been married for 22 years. I can honestly say that if my wife told me that she had been born a male, I wouldn't give a $hit about it.

For me, cheating is a much more complex situation. Theoretically, it should be possible for the relationship to go on. In practice though it doesnt seem to happen (at least among the people I know).

	25-05-2002 22:28									#114
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Spencer, did you read my last post?

	25-05-2002 23:04									#115
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Besides, you would not accuse a white man for not wanting to enter a marriage potential relationship with a black woman, or a Hispanic woman would you of being a racist would you?

What else would you call exclusion based solely on race? If it was a friend of mine, I'd still call him out on it. I understand that people are pressured to accept certain viewpoints because of cultural and social norms. Such circumstances dont change that exclusion based on preconceived ideas is bigotry.

	26-05-2002 07:34									#116
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But Spencer, how can you call my perceptions bigoted towards bisexuals, when I am comfortable relating with them in every aspect except for just one --- monogamous relationships??

I can be co-workers and/or friends with bisexuals.
I recognize bisexuals as deserving of legitimacy with their identity.

Why do I need to write out a psychological or sociological thesis to defend a personal choice of mine when it does not interfere with my relations with bisexuals in all other aspects??

	26-05-2002 07:46									#117
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MF

Its difficult to have this discussion in two places. You dont need to defend your choice, but you are. Clearly some of the other readers on the other thread agree with me. You've said you dont know why you wouldnt consider a monogomous relationship with a bi-male. All I'm saying is maybe you need to know why?

	26-05-2002 08:50									#118
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Ok, you're right -- I need to know for certain, why I feel this way.

I could start corresponding with someone over private messages, who is a bisexual Apolyton member about this to help me clarify my reasons for my choice in this matter.

	26-05-2002 10:55									#119
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So I'm sitting here in my apartment on a Sat. evening (sun morning)w/ my friends, including a hot young woman i won't be you know whating, and thats ok. I can flirt all i want to, right? I think she is flirting. What are you doing, monkspider? OK guys, wish me luck. Every dog has his day, right?