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MarkG is offline MarkG
Grand Lord of Apolyton, Owner of all this land as far as the eye can see

Donate to the Red Cross
Macedonia, Greece
Jan 1970
time: 07:19
  Old Post 25-05-2002 14:20 Visit MarkG<br><img src=/forums/images/admin-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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The SMAC/X FAQ: COMMON QUESTIONS and their ANSWERS Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

you asked for it so....

ATTENTION: please read the rules in this post before posting here. Particularly rule #3 is violated too often (probably because this rule was apparently dropped in the Civ3 forum).

Rules of posting on this thread:
1) You must post a common question.
2) The subject could be anything smac related
3) You must also post the answer to it. If you have a question that is not in this FAQ and you're looking for an answer, please post a new thread in which you ask the question, don't post your question here (if you do, it will be deleted, and (only) if you're lucky someone will repost it in a new thread for you and answer it there).
4) Each question must be numbered and unless you post an addition to an existing point (add the number of the point you're referring to if this is the case), you must post with a new number. So if #25 is the last question, you must number your point #26 (this makes for easy referring when someone asks the question outside this thread).
5) Corrections on the answers should not be made, only additions (e.g. dont try to correct other people, just add your perspective). (The best way to deal with incomplete/incorrect information is to email/PM the person who posted the question and discuss it privately - the person in question can edit his answer if needed).
6) Let's try and keep the answers fairly short, if it's a very 'big' subject with many different aspects or opinions, find/post a seperate thread about it and link to it from here.
7) This thread is for answering common questions, not for discussion! Irrelevant posts will be deleted without warning.

Since we're trying to help people locate the info they need fast (while relieving the regulars of having to answer the same questions over and over again), it's important that this thread remains relatively short (not *too* short of course, then it won't contain the info people need), otherwise it would take too much time to locate the info and people will start their own threads anyway. So rules #1 and #6 are particularly important.

Marid Audran is offline Marid Audran
Warlord
Salt Lake City, Utah
May 2001
time: 22:19
  Old Post 26-05-2002 05:20
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1) Where are some general sites of SMAC/X interest?
A: Try Apolyton's SMAC/X section at:

http://apolyton.net/smac/

Therein you'll find news, game specifics, strategies, files, modification tools, hall of fame challenges, files and fiction.

Also worth a look is Firaxis's homepage for SMAC/X at:

http://www.firaxis.com/smac/

Amid columns of general interest is in-depth background information on the factions, concept artwork of the xenofungal native life, and the uploaded version of the episodic "Journey to Centauri" story by Michael Ely, chronicling the disintigration onboard the Unity during the final days prior to Planetfall.

2) Where can I find patches for SMAC/X?
A: Firaxis's homepage contains all up-to-date patches for SMAC/X, including the add-on Borehole scenerios, alternate color scheme, and patches for the mac version of SMAC.

http://www.firaxis.com/downloads_allfiles.cfm

3) Where can I find Alien Crossfire?
A: Alien Crossfire is out of print, and Electronic Arts, who controls distribution rights, has yet to re-issue it. Used copies may be found in retail shops and specialty outlets, or on Ebay (including the short lived SMAC/X bundled Planetary Pack). Online, British supplier Softwarefirst.com still ships SMAX copies worldwide.

http://www.softwarefirst.com/Produc...WebRef=10081089

The Macintosh version of SMAX can be found and sold here:

http://www.aspyr.com/mini-sites/smacx/

4) How do I create new factions?
A: The alpha.txt and alphax.txt files detail the mechanics of this process. The Faction Editor included in SMAX streamlines the process (but is buggy). opening the faction specific .txt files manually alters stats and descriptions. Custom factions in SMAC must replace one of the original seven under the #FACTIONS heading in the alpha.txt file. Custom factions in SMAX go under the #CUSTOMFACTIONS heading in the alphax.txt file. In both cases the faction should be listed twice and seperated with a comma.

5) Where can I find some new factions?
A: http://www.networknode.org contains an archive of indepedantly created factions, faction creation tools, tutorials, and other resources for customization.

6) Help, my custom factions locking up my faction-selection screen!
A: Make sure your factions are installed in the proper locations in the alphax.txt file, and you're following Faction Editing and translation guidelines (See Question #4). The game may potentially freeze if you have more than 7 custom factions enabled. Additionally, if you delete a custom faction which was used in the LAST game you started (and is thus list in the Alpha Centauri.ini file) the game will choke when starting. Deleting the Alpha Centauri.ini file may solve this. Sometimes SMAX can't stomach manual edits of custom faction files, in which case it is better to confine your creation to the Facedit program. If a custom faction loads cleanly in Facedit (no Terranx crashes), it should load smoothly in the game.

Marid Audran is offline Marid Audran
Warlord
Salt Lake City, Utah
May 2001
time: 22:19
  Old Post 26-05-2002 06:45
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7) I'm having trouble running SMAC/X under Windows 2000.
A: This thread should troubleshoot your problem for you (thanks to Googlie):

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...ows2000+problem

8) I'm having sound problems with SMAC/X; scratchiness, static, feedback, looping, etc.
A: The most common cause with a SoundBlaster card is the surround sound program EAX. Try adding the lines EAX=0 and DS3D=0 to the top of your Alpha Centauri.ini file. This fixes sound issues approximately 75% of the time, with the minor side effect of making the alien sound somewhat dulled. You may also try downloading latest sound compatibility drivers, especially with later versions of Windows. Turning the software sound acceleration down to 'basic' from inside the DirectX DXDIAG tool is another option.

9) Why does the progenitor music play with all the new SMAX factions?
A: The ambient music used in SMAC/X is located in the fx folder in your SMAC directory. They are the .amb files; sset1.amb is for the Spartans, gset1.amb for the Gaians, and so forth. There is no new ambient music for the SMAX factions and the progenitor music (aset1.amb) plays for all of them (a bug in the expansion includes the Believers while under SMAX). If you wish to use ambient music from the original seven factions for the new factions, back up the aset1.amb file and replace it with a copy of one of the other .amb files, properly renamed. It's not a direct translation of the same ambient music, but it is close.

10) How do I get SMAC/X to run in a higher resolution/window?
A: Edit the Alpha Centauri.ini file and add 1024 to the Video Mode headings, e.g., Video Mode=800 or Video Mode=1024 forces the screen resolution to either of these two sizes(800 x 600 and 1024 x 768 pixels, respectively) . It isn't possible to run SMAC/X in anything other than a full screen.

11) How do I disable the opening movie?
A: Edit the Alpha Centauri.ini file and change the line DisableOpeningMovie=0 to 1.

12) How do I become a SMAC/X master?
A: Popular opinion varies wildly, but the consensus almost unanimously votes Christopher "Velocyrix" Hartpence as the guru of this area. Reputable strategy connoisseur, SMAC/X enthusiast, published author and aspiring game designer, he has produced four versions of his infamous SMAC Strategy Guide, the latest of which is sold on Greatunpublished.com at:

http://www.greatunpublished.com/boo...untID=GRTU00118

Version 4.0 of Velocyrix's SMAC Strategy Guide incorporates SMAX into his foundation of game theory. Earlier freeware versions (SMAC only, still a plethora of information on strategy and mechanics) can be found at the Chironian Guild (an excellent site unto itself) at:

http://smac.ask-klan.net.pl/eng/dat...es/velguide.htm

Chowlett is offline Chowlett
King
of Candle'Bre
May 1999
time: 05:19
  Old Post 26-05-2002 14:42
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13) SMAC/X won't run under my Pentium 4, producing "Processor not supported" errors
A:Edit the Alpha Centauri.ini file so that it contains the following lines at the start of the file:
[PREFERENCES]
ForceOldVoxelAlgorithm=1

(Correct me if I'm wrong, of course)

Chowlett is offline Chowlett
King
of Candle'Bre
May 1999
time: 05:19
  Old Post 27-05-2002 03:37
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14) Is anyone up for a Multiplayer game?
A: You bet! Check the Ac-MUltiplaying Forum for:


  • Tau Ceti's PBEM tournament
  • Several Googlie specials
  • Folk wanting to play however you like

Adalbertus is offline Adalbertus
Prince
Cologne, Germany
Feb 2001
time: 06:19
  Old Post 12-06-2002 23:15 Visit Adalbertus's homepage!
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15) What do all those abbr. mean?
Here is a small collection of them:
AA - Alien Artifact
CC - Cybernetic Consciousness
CDF - Citizens Defense Force
CP - Colony Pod
grr - grr (common expression of anger)
HGP - Human Genome Project
HSA - Hunter-Seeker Algorithm
ICS - Infinite City Strategy/Sleaze/... (Found as many bases as possible, don't care too much for development)
IoD - Isle of Deep (the water mindworms)
MCC - Marine Control Center
ME - Merchant Exchange
MP - Multiplayer
OCC - One City Challenge
ODP - Orbital Defense Pod
PB - Planet Buster
PBEM - Play by e-mail
PK - Peacekeeper
>pop< - Fungal Bloom
PTS - Planetary Transit System
RTS - Real-Time Strategy game
SP - Single player, or Secret Project
TBS - Turn-Based Strategy game
ToE - Theory of Everything
UoP - University of Planet
VW - Virtual World
WP - Weather Paradigm

Edit: Added abbreviations.

Last edited by Adalbertus on 27-11-2003 at 23:36

DilithiumDad is offline DilithiumDad
Prince
Ohio
Aug 1999
time: 00:19
  Old Post 21-06-2002 19:56
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16. In SMACX, I see a bunch of drones in the base screen. When I change to the "Psych" view from the "Resources" view to see where the drones are coming from, they aren't there. The base doesn't riot, even though it displays extra drones. What is going on?

A: This is probably the largest bug in SMACX. There is no solution other than to review the Psych screen or to go to the F4 screen and select "Citizens". Otherwise, you cna just wait for drone riots and correct the situation after the fact. In some people's opinion, this bug alone makes SMACX unplayable and they prefer to stick with original SMAC.

Blake is offline Blake
King
Brainfallocatione
Oct 2000
time: 17:19
  Old Post 21-07-2002 05:39
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17) How do I deal with ecodamage?

The short answer is every Tree Farm, Hybrid Forest, Centauri Preserve and Temple of Planet built after the first fungal <pop> increases the clean mineral limit at every base by one. Each fungal pop also increases clean minerals by one.
So you should force a pop ASAP by raising a bases mineral production above 16, then build lots of treefarms. Forcing a pop really is critical to getting the ecodamage reducing effect from treefarms.

18) Whoa! My ecodamage just skyrocketed! why?
Atrocities cause ecodamage. The exact amount for nerve stapling and nerve gassing is unknown. However for launching a planet buster or tectonic missile the ecodamage at every base is increased by the equivalent of producing 5 more minerals. This can be offset by building 5 Centauri Preserves for every PB you intend to launch. (you can sell the CP's and rebuild them)

19) What are some ecodamage terms?
<pop> - This is when fungus spreads, the first few are accompanied by a Book of Planet message. It's also referred to as fungal bloom.
Clean Minerals - The amount of minerals you can produce before ecodamage at a base. Also known as clean mineral limit or clean mineral threshold.

20) Where can I find more about ecodamage?
For almost everything you ever wanted to know about ecodamage read this column:
http://apolyton.net/misc/column/175_ecodamage.shtml

Method is offline Method
Emperor
/me goes to France
Feb 2001
time: 00:19
  Old Post 17-08-2002 05:41
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21) Can a Monolith Disappear?
Yes. Every time a unit visits at a monolith, it has a 1 in 32 chance of disappearing.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=58656

Adalbertus is offline Adalbertus
Prince
Cologne, Germany
Feb 2001
time: 06:19
  Old Post 18-08-2002 23:14 Visit Adalbertus's homepage!
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22) I get a huge fungal bloom despite of not producing any ecodamage. Why?
A: In the late game, when you complete "The Voice of Planet", you trigger "The Growth Dream, which kills most of the other lifeforms on Planet". (You trigger in terms of game mechanisms. In the story line, you start The Voice of Planet right at the moment when the Growth Dream happens.) This causes fungus to grow, with all the consequences (=Mind Worms etc.) you normally get from a . This is a part of the game, you can only avoid it when you refuse to win by Transcendence.

Adalbertus is offline Adalbertus
Prince
Cologne, Germany
Feb 2001
time: 06:19
  Old Post 03-09-2002 04:01 Visit Adalbertus's homepage!
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23) How many nutrients can I get from a land square?
I think this already has been posted somewhere by somebody else, but I think it was more fun to test it myself. It was tested in the scenario editor. And so it is to calculate:


  • First, you get 0 nuts from an arid square, 1 from moist and 2 from rainy (including the raininess effect from condensors).
  • Then add 1 for a farm, and also if in jungle. If there is a nutrient bonus, add another 2. Then you'll have a number between 0 and 6.
  • Multiply this number by 1.5 and forget decimals, if you have a condensor on the square.
  • Do the same if you have soil enricher in the square.
  • Before the discovery of Gene Splicing (i. e. before restriction lifting), a nutrient special or a condensor lift the restriction for their square, otherwise you cannot get more than 2 nutrients per square.

For those who don't like to calculate, the table with the experimental values:



















  plainFSCFCSC
 
arid 0 1 1 - - -
moist 1 2 3 1 3 4
rainy 2 2/3 4 3 4 6
 
arid/nut 2 3 4 - - -
moist/nut 3 4 6 4 6 9
rainy/nut 4 5 7 6 7 10
 
arid/jungle 1 2 3 - - -
moist/jungle 2 2/3 4 3 4 6
rainy/jungle 2/3 2/4 6 4 6 9
 
arid/jungle/nut 3 4 6 - - -
moist/jungle/nut 4 5 7 6 7 10
rainy/jungle/nut 5 6 9 7 9 13

plain - no terrain enhancement
F - Farm only
S - Farm + Soil Enricher (the scenario editor allows also soil enricher without farm but I don't think it works inside the game)
C - Condensor
FC - Farm + Condensor
SC - Farm + Soil Enricher + Condensor.
nut - nutrient bonus.
If an entry has two numbers, x/y, then x is pre-restriction lifting, and y after. I didn't look at Soil Enricher before restriction lifting because Gene Splicing is in the research path for Enricher. The fact that condensors are available before restriction lifting through the Weather Paradigm secret project is one of its major strengths.

The most one thus can get from a normal square (without special luck) is 6 nutrients.

EDIT: some corrections and beautifications thanks to MariOne and Straybow.

Last edited by Adalbertus on 20-07-2003 at 19:00

tonic is offline tonic
King
Melbourne, Australia
Jun 2000
time: 05:19
  Old Post 19-09-2002 06:25
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24) How can you starve a base to death?

By reducing the base size to one and then building a colony pod.

CoffeeBreath is offline CoffeeBreath
Chieftain

Aug 2001
time: 05:19
  Old Post 24-09-2002 08:36
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And how do you reduce a base pop size to 1?

gwillybj is offline gwillybj
Prince
Eurytion Mining Colony: 165°C dayside, 165°F nightside
Mar 2001
time: 00:19
  Old Post 25-09-2002 08:30
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quote:
CoffeeBreath asked:
25) And how do you reduce a base pop size to 1?

One way is to make as many citizens Specialists as is necessary so no Nutrients are being gathered outside the base square. As turns pass, you will be informed by your
quote:
Psych Chaplain:
Our citizens are starving at $BASENAME0! Factories abandoned by hungry workers.
The base will eventually have only one citizen, which you eliminate by producing a Colony Pod.

If you feel bad about starving them, another option is to reduce Nutrient production only enough to stagnate growth, then produce only Colony Pods, hurrying them if possible, and send them off to boost other bases' population or establish new bases elsewhere.

Still another option is to convoy nutrients to another base or bases.

Of course, you could combine any or all of these methods to reduce the population even more rapidly.

Last edited by gwillybj on 19-02-2003 at 12:37

Raion is offline Raion
Prince
USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:19
  Old Post 06-01-2003 03:41 Visit Raion's homepage!
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Great, I will try that line in Alpha Centauri about the
"Does not support this processor".

Let you know later, as I uninstalled it. After that error message. Running a Celeron processor, and never could get it to work.

Thanks!

Like to include it on the new computer. Should run fast now.

Wrote Firaxis about it, but never received a replay back, but, now feel kind of foolish.

You have made my day!!!!!

Back later, to confirm that!!

Now for Alpha Centauri II and whatever!!

Raion is offline Raion
Prince
USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:19
  Old Post 06-01-2003 05:40 Visit Raion's homepage!
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Finally got both to run (Alien Crossfire and Alpha Centauri) except it may help to start off in the right video mode. Not sure exactly yet, as I applied the Windows 2000/XP patch to the game, and finally it started.

Here is the Alpha Centauri.ini file as ended up so far for my system where the CPU reports not being supported:

[Alpha Centauri]
ds3d=1
eax=1
FastUnitAnim=0
SmoothUnitAnim=0
MainFontSize=16
InterludeFontSize=16
DisableOpeningMovie=0

[PREFERENCES]
ForceOldVoxelAlgorithm=1
Video Mode=1024



This seems to be slightly different than from what I remember, but since new Sound Blaster Live and new computer with Windows 2000 Professional with the patch for the game (I may try and uninstall that patch as it may not be needd -- multiplayer would only work with others with the patch), the game finally launched.

I wait a second or two before getting rid of the error message by clicking the 'Okay' command button, because the error message still comes up.

But right now, with the updated smacx2.exe patch and the SMAC_Win2000&XP_Compatibility_Update_v1[2].03f.exe patch, the game (both SMAC/Alien Crossfire) finally worked.






If the reply is in the wrong section, then sorry.

Works better than before.

Raion is offline Raion
Prince
USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:19
  Old Post 06-01-2003 13:05 Visit Raion's homepage!
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Works both ways also with Windows 2000 Professional. Don't actually need the:
SMAC_Win2000&XP_Compatibility_Update_v1[2].03f.exe patch

So far.

knowhow2 is offline knowhow2
King
of the World
Feb 2001
time: 06:19
  Old Post 29-01-2003 02:11
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Where cam i find the no crack (no CD-crack) download?

CEO Aaron is offline CEO Aaron
Prince
Everything has its price. Even you.
Aug 2002
time: 05:19
  Old Post 29-01-2003 03:14
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quote:
Originally posted by knowhow2
Where cam i find the no crack (no CD-crack) download?


Here: http://googlie2.tripod.com/rynnsgallery/id8.html

Fazdaar is offline Fazdaar
Settler

Feb 2003
time: 00:19
  Old Post 27-02-2003 08:02
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How do you look at a person's save file? I've tried clicking on them, but a blank folder comes up.

jhous is offline jhous
Settler

Apr 2003
time: 05:19
  Old Post 09-04-2003 17:52
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Addition to FAQ #13

I had the same problem (new system, new pentium P4, WinXP). I applied all the patches including the "ini" file fix and it didn't help.

What worked for me (in addition to all patches and the "ini" fix) was applying the "no CD" crack (the one that allows you to play the game [Alien Crossfire] without a CD in the drive.

You still get the CPU error message but now you can say "okay" and it will proceed with the game (before it just dumped me back to the desktop).

Alien Crossfire has the "Safedisc" protection on it (that's what requires you to have the CD in the player). Get one of the safedisc remover programs (I used "Safedisc Annihilator.....it's free, readily available and easy to use....do a "Google" search for it).

jhous is offline jhous
Settler

Apr 2003
time: 05:19
  Old Post 09-04-2003 17:58
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Addition to FAQ #13

I had the same problem (new system, new pentium P4, WinXP). I applied all the patches including the "ini" file fix and it didn't help.

What worked for me was (in addition to patches and the "ini' fix) applying the "no CD" crack (the one that allows you to play the game [Alien Crossfire] without a CD in the drive.

You still get the CPU error message but now you can say "okay" and it will proceed with the game (before it just dumped me back to the desktop).

Alien Crossfire has the "Safedisc" protection on it (that's what requires you to have the CD in the player). Get one of the safedisc remover programs (I used "Safedisc Annihilator.....it's free, readily available and easy to use....do a "Google" search for it).

laurentius is offline laurentius
King
Helsinki, Finland
Jun 2001
time: 07:19
  Old Post 11-07-2003 12:48
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Is there any news on SMAC 2/ Brians other projects?

CEO Aaron is offline CEO Aaron
Prince
Everything has its price. Even you.
Aug 2002
time: 05:19
  Old Post 20-07-2003 23:02
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Since Brian Reynolds has left Firaxis and created his own company (Big Huge Games) and created his own title (Rise of Nations), any effort at developing a second Alpha Centauri game is going to be at the hands of some other developer. For more information about Big Huge Games and their projects, go here:

http://www.bighugegames.com/

CEO Aaron is offline CEO Aaron
Prince
Everything has its price. Even you.
Aug 2002
time: 05:19
  Old Post 24-07-2003 07:32
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Q: What are the latest patches for SMAC/X, and what is changed by the patch(es)?

A: The latest patch for Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri is version 4.0, and can be found here:

http://www.firaxis.com/downloads_detail.cfm?file_id=1

The latest patch for Sid Meier's Alien Crossfire is version 2.0, and can be found here;

http://www.firaxis.com/downloads_detail.cfm?file_id=19

The precise nature of the changes applied by each patch are expounded upon on the above links. Yes, it is counter-intuitive that the base game and the expansion use separate versioning numbers, but we didn't make it that way. Sorry.

Q: If I have the expansion, do I need both patches?

A: No, downloading the SMAX 2.0 patch will update both gameplay modes.

Q: Can you explain how maintenance costs were altered by the SMAX 2.0 patch?

A: In prior versions of Alien Crossfire, base facility upkeep was incorrectly computed at Thinker and Transcend Difficulty. At Thinker, base upkeep was reduced to 2/3 it's correct value, so a Hologram Theatre (for example) would only require 2 ECs in upkeep. At Transcend, base upkeep was reduced to 1/3, so the same Hologram Theatre would only cost 1 EC each turn. Once the SMAX 2.0 patch is applied, all upkeep costs are identical at all difficulty levels, and match those in the online documentation.

Q: What about the XP compatibility patch?

A: You can get that here:

http://www.firaxis.com/downloads_detail.cfm?file_id=60

For users of Classic SMAC, the update implements the Golden Age Boom and Base Maintenance fixes introduced to SMAX in the 2.0 update. For SMAX users, this update only fixes problems running the game and playing multiplayer games on WinXP and 2000 systems.

Last edited by CEO Aaron on 25-07-2003 at 23:46

Azedalis is offline Azedalis
Settler

Sep 2003
time: 05:19
  Old Post 08-09-2003 10:18
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Is there a way to tell if a Alien Artifact has been connected to a network node? I find it a real pain not knowing which city to send an artifact to.

gwillybj is offline gwillybj
Prince
Eurytion Mining Colony: 165°C dayside, 165°F nightside
Mar 2001
time: 00:19
  Old Post 09-09-2003 13:01
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#27 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote:
Azedalis asked (Question #33?):
Is there a way to tell if a Alien Artifact has been connected to a network node? I find it a real pain not knowing which city to send an artifact to.

There are two ways:

  1. With the Alien Artifact the active unit, press {G} (go to base). The list that appears is all of your bases (and your pact-mates') on the same landmass (or on the shore of the same sea if aboard a transport, in which case the transport must be the active unit). Any with an Unlinked Node will be so indicated, and you can easily select where to send the Alien Artifact. IIRC, if you built The Universal Translator, it, too, will be indicated.
  2. If your monitor resolution is 800x600, you can look at the facilities listed in the Base Operations Status {F4}. All (linked) nodes will be so indicated.

Last edited by gwillybj on 09-09-2003 at 13:10

Commander Jace is offline Commander Jace
Settler

Sep 2003
time: 05:19
  Old Post 14-10-2003 02:06
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Is it possible to load missiles on to a transport?

"Missile Boats"

Chaos Theory is offline Chaos Theory

King
Missouri / Misery; CC
Oct 2002
time: 04:19
  Old Post 14-10-2003 11:40 Visit Chaos Theory<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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#29 Report this post to a moderator
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Answer 34?:

You can only load missiles (and other air units) on a unit with the carrier deck ability, which is only allowed on naval transports, and becomes available with Nanometallurgy, which is late-game.

Incidentally, you can pair the carrier deck ability with the deep pressure hull to make a submarine that can launch jets...

laurentius is offline laurentius
King
Helsinki, Finland
Jun 2001
time: 07:19
  Old Post 28-10-2003 12:19
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Is there anykind of mod-swapper available to swap between the alternative factions? I mean something you could just load diffrent faction packs with or compile your own coctail from diffrent faction pacs i.e. 2 faction from the alpha, 3, from beta, 1, gamma etc...

 
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