25-05-2002 22:01									#31
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I would take this whole Euro court crap a lot more seriously if its proponents weren't silly people wanting to try Kissinger for fighting the Cold War...

	25-05-2002 22:01									#32
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only countries who have something to hide seem to vote against the court, like China, Sudan, and the USA.

	25-05-2002 22:02									#33
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cause Kissinger is an American?

	25-05-2002 22:03									#34
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And only countries that never do anything (and have pathetic peacekeeper forces) spend so mych psychic energy on this type of beaurocratic supranational organization frumpery...

Last edited by TCO on 25-05-2002 at 22:11

	25-05-2002 22:06									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus cause Kissinger is an American?

You need to be more sneaky when your camel is sticking its nose under the tent. Talk to Roland. He will explain how to go about this. If the pupose of this court is publicly stated to be anti-American or anti-conservative-American foreign policy you will get nowhere. Better policy: downplay this aspect until you get what you want. Then pull the "switcheroo"!

	25-05-2002 22:09									#36
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Don't give away secrets GP.

	25-05-2002 22:15									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Lincoln Don't give away secrets GP.

Understood, "beadwindow".

	25-05-2002 22:51									#38
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Also afraid they'll arrest you GP?

	25-05-2002 22:58									#39
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Yeah...I'm the babykiller, right? Just ask Kitty.

	25-05-2002 23:04									#40
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quote: Originally posted by GP I would take this whole Euro court crap a lot more seriously if its proponents weren't silly people wanting to try Kissinger for fighting the Cold War...

One can fight the cold war without committing war crimes. Bombing Cambodia was a war crime. Bombing Laos was a war crime. Plotting the coup in Chile was a crime against humanity. Giving the ookay to Indoensia to invade East Timor was a crime against humanity. Check out Christopher Hitchens', The Trial of Henry Kissinger. There is absolutely no justification whatsoever for overthrowing sovreign democratic states.

	25-05-2002 23:16									#41
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And because the US is protecting scum like that, we need an International Court to bring the bastards responsable to justice.

"we'll deal with them ourselves". My ass.

Can't wait on the day the first American will appear before the court.

	25-05-2002 23:16									#42
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Che, we bombed Cambodia because of the Hochi Minh trail. Not because of wanting to kill civilians. It was a military target. Just like in North Vietnam. You may not agree with the decision to do so. But it is not a war crime. It was a decision.

	25-05-2002 23:19									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Can't wait on the day the first American will appear before the court.

You gave away the secret. Now we will never join your club...

	25-05-2002 23:23									#44
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quote: Originally posted by GP Che, we bombed Cambodia because of the Hochi Minh trail. Not because of wanting to kill civilians. It was a military target. Just like in North Vietnam. You may not agree with the decision to do so. But it is not a war crime. It was a decision.

Half a million people died from the bombing of Cambodea. That wasn't just from bombing the Trail. When you kill half a million civilians in a military operation, it's a war crime.

	25-05-2002 23:33									#45
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"Helms."

The congress can't tell the President to take military action, silly.

	25-05-2002 23:38									#46
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Saint Marcus, I am surprised that you cannot see the basic problem. If an American, acting in his official capacity, is charged with war crimes by an enemy of the United States, and that person is arrested and taken to the Hague, the arrest is an act of war against the U.S. (Ditto any country trying to arrest an official of an enemy country. I can think of the Greeks trying to arrest Turk officials, for example.)

If the Dutch refuse to turn the American over to the United Stares, they too have committed an act of war.

The problem is not respect for treaties per se, it is that this treaty appears to permit countries to carry out war against their enemies by other means. The Dutch may have no idea what kind of quicksand they have just stepped into.

	25-05-2002 23:40									#47
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If an American, acting in his capacity as an official of the US is charged with a war crime, the crime will be investigated before people are simply shipped off to the Hauge. We don't jail first and investigate second. If a trial is called for, there will likely be substantial evidence calling for a trial.

The US doesn't want to be held resposible because war crimes are a part of the war we do war.

	25-05-2002 23:47									#48
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Half a million people died from the bombing of Cambodea. That wasn't just from bombing the Trail. When you kill half a million civilians in a military operation, it's a war crime.

I kinda doubt those numbers...that would be a pretty intense bombing campaign. You must be mixing in some other conflict casualties...not direct deaths from our bombing.

	25-05-2002 23:47									#49
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quote: If the Dutch refuse to turn the American over to the United Stares, they too have committed an act of war

No it isn't...

	25-05-2002 23:49									#50
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara When you kill half a million civilians in a military operation, it's a war crime.

But when you kill a half million "counter-revolutionaries," it's a noble anti-imperialist act.

Remember people, Che is better than us, because he is enlightened. No sense disagreeing with leftists, because they won't listen to you anyway.

	25-05-2002 23:57									#51
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You know, that was rather uncalled for.

	26-05-2002 00:01									#52
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Pravda IS the truth. The truth is whatever the dialectic says is needed to advance the train of history. The Party is the locomotive!

	26-05-2002 00:12									#54
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Trains are big in the Commie world.

	26-05-2002 00:14									#55
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And in physics.

	26-05-2002 00:15									#56
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Che, I agree with your post. However, read mine again. The hypo is that the arrest is 1) made; 2) by an enemy; for 3) political reasons: war by other means. Can you imagine the Secretary of State on an official mission to Greece, for example, being arrested and taken to the Hague?

	26-05-2002 00:20									#57
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse And in physics.

hmmm...yes.

	26-05-2002 00:24									#58
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Why would a Third country arrest an American leader and send him to the Hague with only an accusation?

	26-05-2002 00:30									#59
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Half a million people died from the bombing of Cambodea. That wasn't just from bombing the Trail. When you kill half a million civilians in a military operation, it's a war crime.

again did you read my post? There was and is absolutely no way to confirm this. The same people who said hundreds of thousands died are the same people who later went in and rounded up 90% of the population and sent them to death camps. There is absolutely no way you can say american bombs are responsible for that, when a few years later before anyone could investigate it. Pol pot rounded up 2 million peasants on the border and sent them to the gulags.


edit-your evidence doesnt even stand up in court. Put that in yer pipe and smoke it!

	26-05-2002 01:16									#60
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The EU would love to get its hands on Ariel Sharone and lock him up for trial for example and some would like to drag Ronald Reagan to the Hague. It is probably best to just play judge and jury for your own people. Once it starts there will be no end to the pompous trials of whoever differs ideologically from Europe. Why don't you try Arrafat for a starter?