28-05-2002 01:30									#211
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OK got it. Still think it's crazy though.

	28-05-2002 01:41									#212
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quote: Originally posted by Kamrat X OK, so now it´s ideology? What happened to the jews historic right to the holy land as stated in the scriptures? Are you admitting that zionism is an ideology among other ideolgies and not a god given right to a piece of land you left 2000 years ago? Interesting...

I really dont get your point.

Zionism was always an ideology, mostly secular, saying that Jews have the right for an independent state in their homeland. Whether Israel is the homeland because god says so or because we were exiled from here 2000 years ago and always yearned to return is irrelevant.

	28-05-2002 01:43									#213
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"OK, so now it´s ideology? What happened to the jews historic right to the holy land as stated in the scriptures? Are you admitting that zionism is an ideology among other ideolgies and not a god given right to a piece of land you left 2000 years ago? Interesting"

I hope you really meaned that " " smiley. this post was taken straight from a donkey's behind.


oh and Eli :

" ........ VEYERUSHALAAAAAAIM".

	28-05-2002 01:45									#214
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"
We could, of course, also look at the Israel situation from the point of view of the British. They fought a very bloody war in Europe for six years, freeing the Jewish people from their greatest persecutors, at the cost of millions of british lives. What thanks do they get from this? None whatsoever! In fact the freed Jews then start a terrorist campaign against the British, eventually forcing the Brits to set up a new country for them. Then, when anyone British so much as criticises the Israelis (not the Jews - the Israelis) they are branded as anti-semitic"



THANK YOU , BRITAIN!

	28-05-2002 01:46									#215
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quote: Sandman, I am seeing a confirming pattern here from Britain. Just what were you taught about your history in this period?

Don't criticise my knowledge of history when you drop clangers like:

quote: Rogan Josh, The British effort in WWII had nothing to do with freeing the Jews. Compare the Civil War in the United States that had everything to do with freeing the slaves.

The history which I was taught in serious detail included:

Social history of Britain 1850-1914

World War 1 1914-1918

Germany and the rise of Hitler 1919-1939

Russia/Soviet Union 1900-1956

	28-05-2002 02:07									#216
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quote: Originally posted by Dalgetti oh and Eli : " ........ VEYERUSHALAAAAAAIM".

Itzbenu oti ha bnei zonot haele.

	28-05-2002 02:07									#217
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Rogan Josh, The British effort in WWII had nothing to do with freeing the Jews.

So are you claiming that the Germans would have been defeated without the British? And do you think the persecution of Jews in "Greater Germany" would have just stopped without the war? Motivation has nothing to do with it - if the British hadn't persevered there would be a hell of a lot more gassed Jews.

quote: Compare the Civil War in the United States that had everything to do with freeing the slaves.

Do you really believe it the main motivation was slavery?

quote: During the late 30's, during the war itself, and just after the war, Britain blocked Jewish immigration into Palestine exactly when it was most needed. Rather than being praised for its actions in regard to the Jews in that period, Britain deserves the world's utter, and total CONDEMNATION! As well, Britain actively opposed creating a Jewish state. It eventually turned the matter over to the UN when, as you said, when violence in Palestine against British troops had become unbearable.

It WASN'T needed. Palestine should not have been given to the Jews. Look at the problems it has caused! Are you blind or just crazy!? All these problems with arab terrorists would not be half as bad if Israel had not been created. Having racist xenophobes like Eli sitting in the middle east causing trouble does not help matters, and neither do you by encouraging them.

	28-05-2002 02:10									#218
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quote: Originally posted by Rogan Josh Having racist xenophobes like Eli sitting in the middle east causing trouble does not help matters, and neither do you by encouraging them.

First, these are baseless accusations.

Second :



Comparing to my Arab cousins i'm the champion of equality, tolerance and human rights.

But of course, the Jews are to blame for the hatred againts them, right?

	28-05-2002 02:17									#219
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"

It WASN'T needed. Palestine should not have been given to the Jews. Look at the problems it has caused! Are you blind or just crazy!? All these problems with arab terrorists would not be half as bad if Israel had not been created. Having racist xenophobes like Eli sitting in the middle east causing trouble does not help matters, and neither do you by encouraging them."

yes. It's a known part of arab national mentality to be peaceful.

	28-05-2002 02:21									#220
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quote: Originally posted by Eli First, these are baseless accusations.

You moved to a country which gives preferential treatment to your specific ethnic group, to the detrement of other ethnicities. That seems somewhat akin to a white person moving to South Africa at the height of apartheid....

quote: Originally posted by Dalgetti It's a known part of arab national mentality to be peaceful.

Unlike the Jews

	28-05-2002 02:24									#221
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I see that the Israeli bunch are throwing around arabic stereotypes about arabs again. At the same time saying anything like that about jews is anti-semitism.

	28-05-2002 02:35									#222
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yes, of course , The jews have a long spanning history of being a warrior nation.

Kropotkin: ok. you're correct. Arab Nations have always been peaceful .

	28-05-2002 03:03									#223
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Oh well Dal, feel free to be a total moron if that amuses you so much

	28-05-2002 03:09									#224
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The number of patented anti-semites with assorted leftist bents in Europe is just amazing. Or is it just Holocaust-guilt, trying to point fingers at Israel and chanting "Look, look! They are bad too! They are real nazi!"? Whatever it is, it sure is distasteful.

Geez. Sometimes I wonder if the world would have been better off if the Soviet Union had trashed Western Europe as well as Eastern. People obviously get stupid, spiteful and petty by enjoying peace and prosperity for too long.

Just look at the Swedish line-up here at 'Poly, for instance.

	28-05-2002 03:10									#225
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You're either one of the best trolls I've ever seen or one of the biggest idiots. I don't know if I care which.

	28-05-2002 05:01									#226
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Rogan Josh and Sandman, Your posts make it seem as if it were one of the war aims of Britain to liberate the Jews. I don't think so, but if you can refer me to a link showing that the British government justified declaring war on Germany for this reason, I will stand down on this point.

The Civil War was all about slavery.

	28-05-2002 05:06									#227
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Oh, just in case you get me wrong, Britain deserves a lot of credit for standing up to Hitler. There is no doubt that Britain was afforded endless opportunities to end the war, but chose not to. It fought on, against high odds, and eventually prevailed with a little bit of help from its friends.

For this, the world does owe Britain thanks.

But, as far as I know, it took Eisenhower's rubbing everyone's nose in the death camps for the world's attitude about the Jews to change. Eisenhower! is the real "Jewish" hero of WWII.

	28-05-2002 06:09									#228
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quote: if Arafat sang at the eurovision contest, he would have won

No he wouldn't. Who'd want the next contest to be held in Ramallah, at the tune of the Merkavas?

	28-05-2002 16:41									#229
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quote: Originally posted by axi No he wouldn't. Who'd want the next contest to be held in Ramallah, at the tune of the Merkavas?

hi ,

the mere thought seems to have something in it , .......

have a nice day

	28-05-2002 16:48									#230
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axi : actually , they're gone now. do you want them to be back?

	28-05-2002 16:54									#231
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Huh? When did the Belgian commentator said something like that? In the beginning perhaps? I only phased in when Spain was singing. I DO recall that they said that some people thought 'it was not proper that Israël would sing of peace in the current situation' or something like that.

	28-05-2002 23:15									#232
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quote: Motivation has nothing to do with it - if the British hadn't persevered there would be a hell of a lot more gassed Jews.

Motivation has everything to do with it.

And it's a fact that saving the jews was not one of brittain's goals, but rather a nice side effect.

Declassified intelligence records prove that the brits knew about the holocaust for years before the war ended.

	29-05-2002 00:45									#233
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I would just like to note that the satirical "news" article posted by Sprayber on page 1 was hilarious.

Well, that and to disagree with you Ned in your characterization of the US Civil War. Slavery was a huge factor... in fact THE reason the Southern States wanted out of the Union. They feared that their ever decreasing power in the federal government would eventually lead to abolition. But the motivation for Lincoln was the preservation of the Union, NOT abolition. The Emancipation Proclamation was issued in 1863, and only provided freedom for slaves in states that continued to resist (in other words, give up now and you get to keep your slaves).

Saying that the Civil War was a righteous crusade against slavery is just as silly as saying that the Allies fought Germany in WWII to save the Jews. In both cases, the good guys were fighting for other, less altruistic, reasons.

-Arrian

	29-05-2002 00:58									#234
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Arrian, I know the north did not initiate the Civil War to free the slaves. This is true. But is also true that the South seceded due to the election of President Lincoln. Why? Because he was a Republican?

We seem to agree the South's succession had everything to do with the fear that the president would somehow abolish slavery, if not in the South initially, at least in the territories and new states. This would lead, they believed, to a voting majority in the Senate by the free states. This would eventually lead to the abolition of slavery in the South by act of Congress.

It seems to me that this means the war was about slavery.

	29-05-2002 01:09									#235
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Slavery was a huge factor... in fact THE reason the Southern States wanted out of the Union. They feared that their ever decreasing power in the federal government would eventually lead to abolition. But the motivation for Lincoln was the preservation of the Union, NOT abolition.

Umm... yeah. That's what I said. The South's succession was all about the fear of abolition, but the North's decision to fight was to prevent the succession, not to free slaves. The argument over whether the Civil War was primarily about slavery or succession is like the argument over the chicken and the egg - the two are hopelessly intertwined.

-Arrian

	29-05-2002 02:03									#236
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But the reason Germany invaded Poland had nothing to do with the Jews while the reason the South seceded had everything to do with slavery. If all the Jews lived in Poland and Hitler attacked to kill them, then England's declaration of war would have, at least in part, been about saving the Jews. I believe this is the distinction I am trying to make.

	29-05-2002 02:12									#237
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Ok, I'm confused. My intent was merely to point out that the Civil War, from the perspective of the Union (the winners), was not an idealistic crusade against slavery. Some people probably saw it that way, but far more saw it as a war to preserve the Union, including Abe Lincoln.

You granted me that point. Disagreement over, so far as I can see.

quote: If all the Jews lived in Poland and Hitler attacked to kill them, then England's declaration of war would have, at least in part, been about saving the Jews. I believe this is the distinction I am trying to make.

Distinction between this and what? What actually happened (Britain declared war on Germany due to protection pact with Poland)? Or something else. Sorry, you lost me.

-Arrian

	29-05-2002 02:15									#238
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Sweden is full....... and Nazi sympathisers.

It was an accessory in 1940 to the murder of my civilian kin in Trondheim, cheerfully enough allowing free passage and active asistance by rail and port to to the Nazis in 1940.

	29-05-2002 04:54									#239
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Hey, we were scared, ok?

	29-05-2002 17:01									#240
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quote: Originally posted by Rand Al'Tor Huh? When did the Belgian commentator said something like that? In the beginning perhaps? I only phased in when Spain was singing. I DO recall that they said that some people thought 'it was not proper that Israël would sing of peace in the current situation' or something like that.

hi ,

the belgian's are even proud of what they did , .......

have a nice day