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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:19
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I've been playing this mod for a few days now, and just completed a full game with it. Here are my comments/criticisms:
1) I really like the first 3 ages. The tech tree, the wonders, the different civs' special wonders, different resources & luxuries, etc.
2) The fourth age is a tad spare, to say the least.
3) I honestly think the unit balance is a little screwy - attack is WAY stronger than defense (especially once you have bombard units, wow).
4) When playing on random maps, which is my personal favorite, the lack of an ability to trade over ocean (even with navigation + exploration) sorta hurts. And only one ship can traverse ocean tiles w/o sinking (galliot). I managed an intercontinental invasion nonetheless, but I lost 15 out of 22 loaded ships (mostly the big ones that carry 4 units). Ouch.
Doh! Gotta run, more later.
-Arrian
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:19
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1) Difficult to say... I played on a standard random map, Monarch level (my usual settings), as the 1 civ that gets 3 traits but no special wonder (messagate?), and got a free settler from a hut, coupled with a solid starting spot. It may not be very typical. But it "felt" just fine... it felt like it was taking much longer, which is the point I would imagine.
2) I'm psyched about the first 3, so the 4th isn't that crucial, but it really feels odd after the others. In a perfect world, I'd like to see it fleshed out.
3) I understand it's deliberate - clearly so - but I think it goes too far in favor of offense. More on that below.
4) It would help if Navigation allowed ocean-going trade, though, because for random maps it just doesn't make much sense (to me) that you can *never* trade with another continent. Intercontinent invasion I managed, once I realized galliots were the only way - just build a lot of 'em, and leave the armies empty until you get across.
Maybe I should play pangeas...
...
I started a new game last night on the fertile crescent map. I played Babylon on Monarch.
The first thing I noticed was with the other civs set to random, many popped up in odd locations. Rome was due north of Babylon - which sucked, by the way!  , the Huns appeared twice - once in Syria, once in Arabia, and the English were waaaaay up in the NE corner, on the Caspian Sea, I think. I still haven't found Carthage, so I assume they're in the northwest of the map. Nubia, Egypt, Persia, and one other (Styria?) looked to be in their proper spots. No one popped up in Turkey.
The second thing I noticed was that Rome & I exploded out in front in tech. Yummy rivers.
The third thing I noticed was that the AI is actually building lots of workers and improving its terrain  I'm not sure they're doing it properly, mind you, but it's way better than stock.
The fourth thing I noticed was that Guard Cavalry unit the Persians get from their special wonder is HARDCORE. I officially hate the Persians. Fought 'em off, though, despite temporarily losing 2 cities. Lucky for me the AI doesn't know what it's doing.
...
I'm having trouble adjusting to the different city size caps. I typically use wider-than-recommended spacing in the stock game (a mixture of c-xxx-c, c-xxxx-c, and c-xx-c). Now, with the cities capped at size 8 instead of 12 for a loooong time, I find that c-xxx-c is far too wide. I'm wasting tiles all over the place. I need to drop down to c-xx-c.
I haven't really explored the governments fully. I made a snap judgement that the best path is despot -> Monarchy -> Republic. Empire if needed later - haven't tried that out yet. Theology seems like it would destroy my shot at a tech lead. Thing Law seems like Monarchy, but harder to have an army. City States... not sure, may have to try that one.
...
Some other random thoughts/feedback:
1) Is it possible to allow Imperial Highways to provide the production bonus of railroads without unlimited movement? If so, why not go with a 1/12 movement (roads being 1/4), instead of unlimited?
2) Are you sure catapults should have a range of 2 tiles, like artillery? They're REALLY powerful.
3) Back to the attack vs. defense thing:
For a very long time, the best defender available is a spearman - 2.4.1, +1hp. Attackers, on the other hand, ramp up quickly to be much more powerful. For the slowmovers, that's ok - you can just make sure you have a lot of attackers yourself and kill theirs before they can attack a city of yours (or, if invading, just understand you're gonna lose a bunch of spears in the process). It's the fastmovers that are a problem, IMO. Now we're talking about units that can hit cities directly (w/o stopping inside the defender's territory, and thus being subject to counterattack). It's ok with chariots and horsemen (4 and 5 attack, respectively), but it starts getting ugly with elite horsemen (7 attack - special unit, I know) and anything better (the aforementioned Persian unit comes to mind). The Human player in particular can utterly rape the AI with that type of advantage. Heck, even with plain 'ole horsemen, if you mass a bunch of 'em.
-Arrian
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watorrey
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Rochester, NY, USA
Oct 2001
time: 00:19
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I'm gonna have to look into the randomized starts on the premade maps, that shouldn't have happened. If it's a mistake i made, it'll release a patch asap. If it's some glitch in the editor > biq settings, i'll post a warning.
Ocean trade just isn't gonna happen. It goes against the spirit of the mod. It just needs to be considered an additional challenge.
There are many aspects of TAM that make you rethink your strategy from the epic game. That is one of its appealing traits. City size, offensive power, and goverments are several of these.
Railroads (imperial roads) are hardcoded in the game. It's the one aspect i dislike about it but nothing we can do.
I'll look into whether catapults are meant to be 2 tiles range or not... might be another mistake, might not.
The human player advantage over the AI, as was explained to me once... the human is supose to beat up on the AI  Although there are testimonails about how well balanced TAM is, i personally feel it is just an illusion because it is so *different*. We tried to maintain that illusion when working on 2.5. The freebie mounted units (Persia, Macedon) do have a chance at new stats
FYI: Tech pace and barbarian activity was tweaked for the large map. We didn't do much 2.5 testing on the standard Fertile Crescent map. Also, Goverments were rebalanced to try and deal with the overpowering communal trait introduced in C3C. It's almost bugged in favor of the player as is.
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:19
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Ok, I'll shut up about the ocean trade thing. I can live with it, no problemo. It is, after all, an ancient age mod. I can play Pangea random maps or the maps that came with the mod. The more I think about it, the more it seems I was off-base. You guys are right on this one.
Attack/Defense - you guys make the mod, I just play it. I've had my say. I respectfully disagree, Thamis, that it's more fun if the attacker has such an advantage.
Persian special unit - it has, IIRC, a 9 (NINE!!) attack factor. This is something that shows up really early on. Why not bring it in line with other civ's beefed-up horseman units (7 attack)? Just a thought. It would still eat spears for lunch.
Hmm, I haven't played any of the communal governments yet. Perhaps I should try them out next time.
I'm glad you are paying attention to this thread. I like the give 'n take.
-Arrian
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25-05-2004 15:27
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