09-06-2002 03:36									#1
	Maybe I'm Missing Something: Who is affirmitive action supposed to help? Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Maybe I'm missing something but who is affirmitive action and racial quotas supposed to help?

Take these two for college admissions. In order to achieve a certain number of black students, a college may have to lower its minimum requirements a bit for black students in order to fulfill the quota and will have to automatically accept black students over equal white students.

But it seems to me that this helps blacks who don't need the help. For these people to afford to go to college, they must have risen to a point that makes them equal to most whites (ie- middle class). What about the people who can't afford no college? How is racial quotas supposed to help them? Aren't they the one's who these things are supposed to help? The poor black man in the city... how is affirmitive action and racial quotas helping him?



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	09-06-2002 03:43									#2
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Affirmative action is supposed to help the Democrats. It insures that they continue to get the black vote.

	09-06-2002 03:45									#3
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...without actually helping blacks

	09-06-2002 03:56									#4
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quote: The poor black man in the city... how is affirmitive action and racial quotas helping him?

employment?

	09-06-2002 04:04									#5
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watch american history x and listen to Eddie Norton's speech about his father.

basically, firefighters/cops/many other jobs are forced to give jobs to minorities who are LESS QUALIFIED FOR THE JOB than whites in many cases. not grossly underqualified, but enough to notice.

i believe a quote from the movie is "my father went out there expecting backup, and the two guys covering him weren't the best men for the job"

	09-06-2002 05:37									#6
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He he... And once again middle class white kids are complaining about AA... I'm waiting for the time that it's their turn to profit from it...

And Speer, once again, CHANGE YOUR F***ING HANDLE!

Edit: typo

Last edited by Hueij on 09-06-2002 at 05:58

	09-06-2002 05:55									#7
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX watch american history x and listen to Eddie Norton's speech about his father. basically, firefighters/cops/many other jobs are forced to give jobs to minorities who are LESS QUALIFIED FOR THE JOB than whites in many cases. not grossly underqualified, but enough to notice. i believe a quote from the movie is "my father went out there expecting backup, and the two guys covering him weren't the best men for the job"

Too precious. A movie about vicious racial tensions in California, and you've developed a crush on the character who drives his sons to race hatred.

	09-06-2002 06:04									#8
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KH: I kinda agree (to a point) with the dad. He goes too far, but the point of giving less qualified people jobs in firefighting/police is wrong. I don't think they do that really anymore though (just for women ).

	09-06-2002 06:07									#9
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I don't believe that race-based affirmative action is the way to go either, Imran. I've said that quite a few times. That still doesn't make the father in that movie any less despicable.

	09-06-2002 06:10									#10
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Well that's true... Uber, I think got the wrong idea.

I was like, well that's true, and then he used 'nigger' (or something) IIRC, and I was like.. WHOA...

	09-06-2002 06:17									#11
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well, sure, he's an extremeist, and a rascist, but he has a valid point under all that hate.

	09-06-2002 06:19									#12
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I wouldn't mind AA if it was economically based.

why should the daughter of a black stockbroker have a better chance than a coal miner's son?

	09-06-2002 06:25									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Faeelin I wouldn't mind AA if it was economically based. why should the daughter of a black stockbroker have a better chance than a coal miner's son?

Just a naive question from a Eurokommie: how many black stockbrokers are there?

	09-06-2002 06:29									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Hueij He he... And once again middle class white kids are complaining about AA... I'm waiting for the time that it's their turn to profit from it... Edit: typo

That's a good point and you're apsolutely right. Exactly why there have to be protections against government enforced advantages... Exactly what unrestrained democracy could do ("It's OK as long it's going to me")...

	09-06-2002 06:35									#15
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quote: Originally posted by tandeetaylor That's a good point and you're apsolutely right. Exactly why there have to be protections against government enforced advantages... Exactly what unrestrained democracy could do ("It's OK as long it's going to me")...

Not sure what you are saying here... But what baffles me (keep in mind that I'm looking from a Euro perspectve) is that all those people who complain about AA are the people who benefitted most from racial discrimination.

	09-06-2002 06:39									#16
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My parents are from Pakistan. So I don't think I benefited at all from racial discrimination .

	09-06-2002 06:40									#17
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You're a token minority.

	09-06-2002 06:41									#18
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Woohoo! Token!

	09-06-2002 06:42									#19
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Come on Imran... Care to tell what your father does for his profession and if it's something that's valued in the US?

	09-06-2002 06:43									#20
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He's an engineer... civil engineer at a sewage treatment plant.

... and an immigrant, who had to go to Wyoming to get certified in the US .

	09-06-2002 06:50									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Hueij Not sure what you are saying here...

I'm saying that when people have the power to exploit others through force (ie government) they say Yes, but complain when they are the exploited. And that is why no one should have the ability to exploit others through force.

Now, if there was a completely private university or business that did not receive any funding from federal or local governments, they can have a "people with big noses" quota for all I care.

But when govt funding is received, it means that somewhere legislators have a say-so, and those legislators can be influenced by the unrestrained power of the majority (in numbers, power, voice, etc.), and that power will inevitably say "Me!"

	09-06-2002 06:51									#22
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Who said I'm attacking quotas? I'm just saying they don't help who they supposed to help...

	09-06-2002 06:52									#23
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Okay, so he had skills that the US needed and so he didn't need AA. But what about non-white US citizens that have to compete with white ones? I seriously don't believe that color doesn't make a difference over there. And the fact that all the people on Apo that are complaining about AA are middle class white kids doesn't give me any reason to change my mind. Ask yourself, why aren't there any middle class black kids here?

	09-06-2002 07:00									#24
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Hueij:

Stop worrying about **** in the USA, dutch boy

	09-06-2002 07:02									#25
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Why aren't their more Japanese kids here?

The one black guy that I knew on Poly was adamantly against AA (General BT).

The color of your skin doesn't make you any less competitive with someone of another color. That is just BS. Economic situtaions have a result, but people of color can get skills if they have the same economic power as whites.

	09-06-2002 07:04									#26
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quote: Originally posted by tandeetaylor I'm saying that when people have the power to exploit others through force (ie government) they say Yes, but complain when they are the exploited. And that is why no one should have the ability to exploit others through force. Now, if there was a completely private university or business that did not receive any funding from federal or local governments, they can have a "people with big noses" quota for all I care. But when govt funding is received, it means that somewhere legislators have a say-so, and those legislators can be influenced by the unrestrained power of the majority (in numbers, power, voice, etc.), and that power will inevitably say "Me!"

Ah, I see where you are coming from. You are an American Libertarian, right? If so, i have to admit that over here in the Netherlands the idea of American Libertarianism (is that a word?) is totally alien. Over here we have this idea that we all live in a society, that we are all totally different, that we somehow have to live together and that we all have to give up something to make that happen. And that means our taxes are way up there because we don't want anyone to fall between the cracks... (I hope this makes any sense )

	09-06-2002 07:08									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer Hueij: Stop worrying about **** in the USA, dutch boy

I don't stop because the Apo boards are my favourite hang out... And next time, Dutch is written with a capital D, and don't call me me boy...

	09-06-2002 07:10									#28
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quote: The one black guy that I knew on Poly was adamantly against AA (General BT).

I would also like to add that in my real life experiences, though I rarely talk about things like racial quotas, etc. in real life, the few times something like this came up, nearly every black person i knew were against them. Now i'm not like some of you damn whiteys who are like "i even got black friends" cause you go to a school with a bussed-in genius black boy... I know a whole lot of black people and I dont think ive known one who truly supported Afirmitive action (although a few thought AA was not a gov't law but things like the united negro college fund)


thanks

	09-06-2002 07:14									#29
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and Hueij... counter my opening point. How do racial quotas help poor blacks from falling into the 'cracks'?


thanks

	09-06-2002 07:16									#30
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Don't know about quota's... But AA at least give them the chance to get even..

And change your f**king nick...