11-06-2002 18:01									#31
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand During any war, individual rights get put aside to a degree for the good of the whole. This is an example.

What war, Sloww? War against our own citizens?


I find it very interesting that this man is Hispanic. Hopefully all the pro-racial profiling folks will start to have second thoughts.

	11-06-2002 18:02									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Most definitely. And you don't have to worry because you don't live in the US.

I still care about the rights of the American people.

	11-06-2002 18:02									#33
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Right, it's all because he's Hispanic.

	11-06-2002 18:03									#34
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon I still care about the rights of the American people.

Which will be respected.

Unless one or two US citizens decide to team up with Al Qaeda and build a dirty bomb... whose rights will not be respected and their citizenship should be stripped of them.

	11-06-2002 18:06									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Which will be respected. Unless one or two US citizens decide to team up with Al Qaeda and build a dirty bomb... whose rights will not be respected and their citizenship should be stripped of them.

But he hasn't been tried! All peoples are innocent until proven guilty!

	11-06-2002 18:07									#36
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon But he hasn't been tried! All peoples are innocent until proven guilty!

WHAT? HOW ABOUT THIS: THE US TRIES HIM AFTER HE HAS BLOWN UP A DIRTY RADIOACTIVE BOMB IN THE US? Because that is what you are proposing.

Or how about this: Let him free?

What will you do now?

	11-06-2002 18:08									#37
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Has his citizenship been stripped? By the way, I am not a strict libertarian. I am a conservative who still believes in liberty and the Constitution. I fully understand the necessity for war time restrictions on rights but this war will never end and anyone who is called a terrorist can be the enemy. The implications are frightening.

	11-06-2002 18:09									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo WHAT? HOW ABOUT THIS: THE US TRIES HIM AFTER HE HAS BLOWN UP A DIRTY RADIOACTIVE BOMB IN THE US? Because that is what you are proposing. Or how about this: Let him free? What will you do now?

So we go around putting citizens under military arrest without trial?! This is the stuff of dictatorships, not democracies!

If this man has not been tried HE IS NOT GUILTY. Surely anyone with any faith in democracy can see this?!

	11-06-2002 18:10									#39
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I can see this despite you being the crime infested hellhole of europe

	11-06-2002 18:11									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Lincoln Has his citizenship been stripped? By the way, I am not a strict libertarian. I am a conservative who still believes in liberty and the Constitution.

No, I am the conservative.

quote: So we go around putting citizens under military arrest without trial?! This is the stuff of dictatorships, not democracies!

This person has been planning to explode a dirty radioactive bomb in the US and you are proposing to do NOTHING!

quote: If this man has not been tried HE IS NOT GUILTY. Surely anyone with any faith in democracy can see this?!

You obviously are mistaken. I am completely for a democracy. But this man should not be allowed to walk on the streets.

	11-06-2002 18:11									#41
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Right, it's all because he's Hispanic.

Ummm... I think you misunderstood me.

	11-06-2002 18:12									#42
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No one wants to let him walk the streets. What is wrong with a trial for this man?

	11-06-2002 18:13									#43
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He will get his military trial.

	11-06-2002 18:14									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo This person has been planning to explode a dirty radioactive bomb in the US and you are proposing to do NOTHING!

Surely even you can see that without evidence this man has DONE NOTHING. He is as innocent as you or I, until he is found guilty in a FAIR TRIAL.

Why don't we just accuse anyone who opposes the government of being a terrorist and have the military arrest them indefinently.

Lincoln is right, this goes against the values of both liberals and conservatives.

quote: You obviously are mistaken. I am completely for a democracy. But this man should not be allowed to walk on the streets.

Why not? He is not guilty.

	11-06-2002 18:16									#45
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon Surely even you can see that without evidence this man has DONE NOTHING. He is as innocent as you or I, until he is found guilty in a FAIR TRIAL.

There is evidence against him and to prevent him from being set free by bail for example he had to be put under indefinite detention.

quote: Why don't we just accuse anyone who opposes the government of being a terrorist and have the military arrest them indefinently.

OMG! This is unbelieveable! The guy has plans to build dirty weapons and you want nothing done about it!

quote: Lincoln is right, this goes against the values of both liberals and conservatives.

We on the right wing want vigliance not second guessing.

quote: Why not? He is not guilty.

HE IS GUILTY.

This is so pathetic.

Probably why the crime rate is so high in Britain.

	11-06-2002 18:18									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo He will get his military trial.

That is patently unconstitutional and illegal! And, what's worse than the possibility of military trial is the fact that they don't have to give him ANY trial at all! They could just hold him, indefinitely, without a trial until the day he dies.

This is simply disgusting behavior by my government, but nothing is going stop Bush & Ashcroft from doing what they want in regards to this guy.

	11-06-2002 18:19									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo OMG! This is unbelieveable! The guy has plans to build dirty weapons and you want nothing done about it! HE IS GUILTY. This is so pathetic. Probably why the crime rate is so high in Britain.

I want him to have a FAIR TRIAL, like any other civilian!

You talk about Britain?! A coupla decades ago your country was a fascist state!

	11-06-2002 18:20									#48
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon I want him to have a FAIR TRIAL, like any other civilian!

He will get his trial.

quote: You talk about Britain?! A coupla decades ago your country was a fascist state!

So what?

	11-06-2002 18:20									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo HE IS GUILTY. This is so pathetic. Probably why the crime rate is so high in Britain.

WRONG, Giancarlo. He is NOT GUILTY until proven otherwise in a court of law. And NOT a military court, either.

THAT is the law of the land. What Ashcroft has done is illegal.

	11-06-2002 18:21									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer WRONG, Giancarlo. He is NOT GUILTY until proven otherwise in a court of law. And NOT a military court, either. THAT is the law of the land. What Ashcroft has done is illegal.

I am not wrong in this matter.

Ashcroft did nothing illegal.

	11-06-2002 18:22									#51
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Your grasp of the American justice system is lacking, my young gay conservative friend.

	11-06-2002 18:23									#52
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Remind me to flee the planet if Gianarlo ever comes to power...

	11-06-2002 18:24									#53
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We want G ! We want G ! We want G!

	11-06-2002 18:24									#54
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"I am not wrong in this matter. "

	11-06-2002 18:25									#55
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Well he would be a good warrior...

	11-06-2002 18:25									#56
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Alright I will explain myself now because I have to go take my last final exam:

I am for the US being a republic, and a free state. Yes, but should it be this way for people who have plans to blow up dirty radioactive weapons in the US and have been in Afghanistan training with Al Qaeda and the taliban? No it should not. Those who are accused of being connected Al qaeda with credible evidence should not have the chance of being set free by a judge on bail which could be hazardous to national security. Is there a fine line for who sets the standards of national security and individual rights? I leave that to the government. I am not for a fascist/police state and will never be. I am for security, and maybe sometimes rights of certain individuals will be infringe but that is better than having them walk around the US with plans to blow up a dirty radioactive weapon.

Yes maybe my beliefs are outspoken from what you have heard but it is just me.

quote: Your grasp of the American justice system is lacking, my young gay conservative friend.

That is not for you to judge. And I am not gay.

	11-06-2002 18:29									#57
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"And I am not gay."

	11-06-2002 18:30									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Tolls "And I am not gay."

Erhm... back to the topic...

	11-06-2002 18:33									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo That is not for you to judge.

Actually, no, that is for me (and everyone else) to judge, since you've gleefully paraded around your total ignorance of the American justice system. Actually, it's not a judgment at all, but simply a statement of fact.

	11-06-2002 18:34									#60
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How insulting... well I gotta go... you can talk to yourself now about how wrong I am...