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Lincoln
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...hi%2Dnews%2Dhed
Here is an excerpt from the above article:
"The case was transferred to military custody Sunday, Ashcroft said, after President Bush designated Padilla as an "enemy combatant who poses a serious and continuing threat to the American people and our national security."
Padilla is being held in the Naval Consolidated Brig in Charleston, S.C. It was unclear whether he might be headed for trial by a military tribunal, possibly as the first defendant to face such a panel since Bush announced last year that he would create tribunals as part of the war on terrorism.
Bush has said the tribunals would apply only to non-U.S. citizens. It is unclear whether Padilla would be an exception to that rule..."
Mr Padilla is a United States citizen. He is entitled to all of the rights of Americans as they are spelled out in the Constitution. He was arrested on American soil. Regardless of his slimey status as an enemy of the United States, trying this man by a military tribunal is an outrage.
This so called war can last for ever and the President even said as much. So that means that our rights are trashed. By, by miss American pie...
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Lincoln
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I don't think that the people of this nation will stand for this but if there is another attack then they will probably ignore it in support of this endless war.
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Bereta_Eder
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quote:
Originally posted by Lincoln
Civil rights are always infringed in war time and that is understandable. The problem this time however is that this war will never end. So the rights are gone forever. |
Lincoln, do you remember in the times of the Cold War, many political analysts had said that this partision of the world into these two blocks was an historical "abnormality" that was destined to come to an end, one way or another, and could not be, factually, perpetuated.
I wonder if this is the same with terrorism. I'm saying this in respect to the fact that there are only a handful of terrorist squads out there. Not complete power blocks.
This war against terrorism was actually predicted (by several political analysts, many of them american) as the next "fight" of many countries.
IMHO, this will not end untill the parts of this world where terrorists are spawn can afford decent levels of quality of life for their citizens.
But in respect to the reduction of civil rights in America and to a lesser degree elsewhere (since the threat appears not to be so grave), maybe new technologies will come into the scene that will in fact protect many of these rights in the short term. Maybe.
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Wraith
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Austin, Texas, USA
Aug 1999
time: 23:20
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--"This so called war can last for ever and the President even said as much. So that means that our rights are trashed."
What I don't understand is why this could possibly surprise anyone. It's not the first time these exact same methods have been used to do just that. Politicians didn't take very long to figure out that they can do a lot of extra things in the name of a war, and almost always keep them around after said war.
It just took them a while to come up with these permanent wars. Cold War, War on Drugs, War on Terror, now they're trying to start (of all things) a War on Fat (the language they've chosen to represent themselves is so telling)...
--"I'm saying this in respect to the fact that there are only a handful of terrorist squads out there."
They don't have to constitute a power block for the government to have enough excuse to keep the war going. This is also one of those things where a wag the dog situation could apply, since terrorist incidents could be easily faked if the people in power were so inclined (I don't think they are yet, on the whole, but the possibility doesn't escape me).
Wraith
"I object to power without purpose, and to authority without restraint."
-- Mr Spock
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Lincoln
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Paiktis, I don't see how technology can help much here. In fact that is just another avenue where the rights have been trashed. Surely this guy would be found guilty in a court of law if the evidence is as the government says it is.
This man can be held "for the duration of the conflict" without trial.
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Lincoln
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I don't know. I think that something will be done about it. There are too many people here that can still see beyond the immediate crisis to roll over so quickly.
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Lincoln
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Giancarlo, the problem is that this power will be abused. I have no sympathy for this particuar individual but does not the thought of indefinite detention without trial bother you?
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Bereta_Eder
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quote:
Originally posted by Lincoln
Paiktis, I don't see how technology can help much here.
In fact that is just another avenue where the rights have been trashed.
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I was thinking in terms of reducement of "harasement" and trouble, if nothing else. For example one solid and secure ID number and hence no need for taking fingerprints etc.
But yes you're right, technology can very well constitute just another base for further civil rights violation.
quote:
Surely this guy would be found guilty in a court of law if the evidence is as the government says it is.
This man can be held "for the duration of the conflict" without trial. |
Yes, I see...
Well I'd imagine it depends on you, the people, to pressure your government on one way or the other.
IMO the real danger is for governments to use the accusation of "terrorism" in order to control, unlawfully and unconstitutionally, persons who have nothing to do with terrorism but whose ideas are offensive to the government.
OTOH, when you have the risk of a dirty bomb hanging over your head, you can very well agree not to defend those rights.
If nothing else, your vigilance and concern in such matters, and others I'm sure, is propably the best way to try and ensure fairness. And is very encouraging.
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Lincoln
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Well I agree with what you said Paiktis. Except I am not for the I.D. thing. In any case, I think that America as we know it (or thought it was) is no more.
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Lincoln
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quote:
Originally posted by Wraith
--"IMO the real danger is for governments to use the accusation of "terrorism" in order to control, unlawfully and unconstitutionally,"
I forget which bill/law/treaty it was exactly, but one of the recent ones defined "hackers" as terrorists... It's quite amazing what they've already got under that label.
Edit:
--"I am more for vigiliance,"
He's already been caught. Locking him up indefinitely without a trial does nothing to increase vigilance.
Wraith
"Nobody move or everybody gets hurt!"
-- The Tick |
Exactly. The label of "terrorist" seems to have no bounds.
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Lincoln
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Who defines what "terrorism" means Giancarlo?
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Guynemer
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quote:
Originally posted by Lincoln
I don't know. I think that something will be done about it. There are too many people here that can still see beyond the immediate crisis to roll over so quickly. |
You're not cynical enough.
Exactly who is going to stand up for this man? A politician? It'd be career suicide.
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11-06-2002 16:59
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