26-08-2002 13:57									#91
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To be brief:
1) The whole "Join my religion or die" thing.
2) Because it was convenient to do so (uses the "Join my religion or die" thing, but is not sincere. Christians could say that a Jew that they owed money to committed blood liber or some other lies/crap etc. and the Jew in question would be killed. The Christian then no longer has debts). Also works for religions other than Christianity, but so far only experienced there (ie. Islam has not done this).
3) Fear/mistrust of unfamiliar people potentially causes hate as people are led on by those who seek to take advantage of them (a la Hitler).
4) Terrible economic situation coupled with any of the above tends to increase Anti-Semetism (a la Germany in the 20's/early 30's).

Finally, Jewish Studies class comes in handy

	26-08-2002 19:13									#92
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*Bump* ( yes, I have nothing to add right now. )

	26-08-2002 19:49									#93
	Wherein do the roots of Anit-semitism lie? Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I think originally it was them darn curly sideburns

	26-08-2002 20:45									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Che: well, that's the only decent looking thing I found. Found no evidence to the contrary as well.

Everyone wants to trace their history to "noble" ancestors. Even the Romans claimed decent from from Troy, by way of the Pheonicians. By some Arabs claiming decent from the Philistines, they up the ante on Jewish claims to the Holy land. I'm not saying that it isn't possible that Pheonician traders settled in Qatar, but I'm not accepting their say so.

Bugs, well I'll be jiggered. You mean to tell me that all my years of Irish nationalist indoctrination have lead me astray! Even the Clancy Brothers mislead me. :sigh:

MOSES RI-TOORAL-I-AY
The policeman walked out, oh so proud on his beat
When a vision came to him of stripes on his sleeve
"Promotion," he whispered "I'll try for today
So come with me Mr. Ri-tooral-I-ay"

"Come tell me your name" says the limb of the law
To the little fat man selling wares on the straw
"What's that sir? Me name sir? Why, 'tis there on display
And it's Moses Ri-tooral-I-ooral-I-ay"

The trial it came on and it lasted a week
One judge said 'twas German another 'twas Greek
"Prove you're Irish" said the policeman "and beyond it say nay"
And we'll sit on it Moses Ri-tooral-I-ay"

The prisoner stepped up there as stiff as a crutch
"Are you Irish or English or German or Dutch?"
"I'm a Jew sir, I'm a Jew sir, that came over to stay
And my name it is Moses Ri-tooral-I-ay"

"We're two of a kind" said the judge to the Jew
You're a cousin of Briscoe and I am one too
This numbskull has blundered and for it will pay"
"Wisha, that's right" says Moses Ri-tooral-I-Ay

There's a garbage collector who works down our street
Who once was a policeman, the pride of his beat
And he moans all the night and he groans all the day
Singing "Moses Ri-tooral-I-ooral-I-ay

	26-08-2002 23:18									#95
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Che: o.k. I'll try and find another link (goes slaving in google. )

	26-08-2002 23:37									#96
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how about this?
http://i-cias.com/e.o/phoenicia.htm

	26-08-2002 23:51									#97
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Well, that would lead me to believe my sources were incorrect. More study is required.

	27-08-2002 00:05									#98
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Last edited by Az on 27-08-2002 at 00:14

	27-08-2002 00:07									#99
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You mean

	27-08-2002 00:15									#100
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No, I prefer this smiley.

	27-08-2002 01:42									#101
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quote: Lars-E, don't take your history directly from the Bible. The Hebrews are beliwed to have invaded Egypt along with the Hyksos. When Egypt finally overthrew its former masters, its former masters became the slaves.

I thought current archeological thought was that the Hebrews never migrated en masse into Egypt in the first place; rather there was a small number of Hebrews leaving Egypt which formed the basis of Exodus (since there were no Egyptian border records documenting this, or any other form of documentation on the Egyptian side of the story).

	27-08-2002 01:44									#102
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Missed the Cbeast

	27-08-2002 03:21									#103
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ok, Let's end it once , and for all. WTF is Cbeast?

	27-08-2002 03:45									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo I thought current archeological thought was that the Hebrews never migrated en masse into Egypt in the first place; rather there was a small number of Hebrews leaving Egypt which formed the basis of Exodus (since there were no Egyptian border records documenting this, or any other form of documentation on the Egyptian side of the story).

There are some letters to Amenhotep the III or IV (Amenhotep IV = Akenaton, btw) that the Hibiru were attacking the cities of the King.

	27-08-2002 04:44									#105
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Returning to the roots of Anti-semiticsm, I think that we can not point a single event. Howewer, If any is to be pointed, I will choose Alexandrine's revolts. Not are the first, not the bad, but are the start of 2000 vey bad years.

You cand found a chronology

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Cyprus/8815/chrono.html

[Sorry is post bring repeat info. I don't read all the thread before posting. ]

	27-08-2002 04:56									#106
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Yaroslav, That was a very interesting chart. It helps explain the Jewish revolt in 117 in North Africa. The Jews took Alexandria and went on a killing rampage. Trajan (Hadrian) had to recall the army from the ME in order to deal with the revolt. I half recall some history that the Jews of Babylon (Bagdad?) had financed the rebellion in order to force Roman withdrawal. However, it appears with such violent anti-Semitism then existing in Alexandria, the revolts could have occurred spontaneously.

	27-08-2002 05:05									#107
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Yes, Ned. Jew in Persian empire have power and influence - not free, but as result of a hard work on trade and other affairs. Jews of Babylon always support the revolts of roman empire's jews in order to recover their country (Israel) or in order to stop roman attacks on Babylon

The revolt of Alexandria is only a part of a jewish revolt under Trajan and later, Hadrian: the Bar Kocheba (Son of the start) revolt.

You can find some info there, although I don't read it extensively, so I don't know how acurrate it is:

http://www.jewish-history.com/Palestine/period1.html

	27-08-2002 08:54									#108
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I have to say that Che's association of the Phillistines with the Phoenicians is one I haven't heard before. The Phoenicians are a Semitic people closely related to both the Hebrews and the Canaanites. The Phillistines were an Indo-European people with very different customs and language. For instance, one common element of Canaanite, Hebrew and Phoenician culture was sacrificing your dearest child to the gods in time of trouble. This comes through in the Bible where Isaac is almost killed by Abraham (who seems to be pretty ready to roll, which makes sense only in a culture where this sort of thing was acceptable). There are plenty to references of this practice in the historical record of Carthage, and archeologists found a bronze statue in the shape of a god where these sacrifices took place. Apparantly the statue was heated until red hot and the infant was placed into the statue's outstretched hands. When the tiny body was shriveled it dropped into the fire below.

Side note: IIRC Carthage was founded by the neice of Jezabel of biblical fame.

	27-08-2002 17:52									#109
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Jews supported Persians against Romans and weren't liked
for that. They also weren't quite nice to Christians even when they were in minority. One of Antiochian patriarchs was burned alive by Jews during their revolt. After Chosroes Parwiz' agression, Jews gave the outburst of their hate against Romans and Christians, slaughtering them, destroying churches and helping Persian armies. Emperor Heracleus got to know about it from a Jew in Tyberias and issued a plea to the western monarchies to baptise all the Jews by force. I believe that it was first example of such attitude.
Slaughter in Nagran by Jewish ruler of Yemen as well as his other deeds were quite reknown.
My point is that Jews hated Christians as much as Christians
hated them. Jews just didn't have as many chances to prove that. But when they had - they were doing that.

	27-08-2002 18:39									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel ok, Let's end it once , and for all. WTF is Cbeast?

The 100th post in a thread, it keeps the lamebrains at CG occupied...

http://www.counterglow.net/forum/sh...=&threadid=5201

http://www.counterglow.net/forum/sh...=&threadid=6550

	29-08-2002 18:27									#111
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quote: Lars-E, don't take your history directly from the Bible. The Hebrews are beliwed to have invaded Egypt along with the Hyksos. When Egypt finally overthrew its former masters, its former masters became the slaves.

What's your point? In relevance to the roots of anti-semitism?

quote: Furthermore, the Philistines were decendents of the original Attic Greeks who were chased out of Greece by the Doric Greeks (except around Athens).

From Crete.

I thought about mentioning this as an interesting sidenote in my first post, but decided it had no relevance.

quote: Che, that would actually made sense, because, in the bible , Joseph is a Viceroy ( of sorts ) , and It is later told that the government has changed , and the next pharoh didn't like the Hebrews. I'd say that the farther back we go in the bible, the less true are the stories. The exodus is in that "grain of truth area".

The other sources mentioned in here is taken as truth for some reason..

Much of the OT has been confirmed by archeology.

quote: Now I am certain ( I know the bible fairly well ) that Moses married the daughter of a cheiftain of a tribe of Midyanim. They were a desert semi-nomadic tribe. Hethites are recalled many times in the bible and have a name of their own.

Moses married Zipporah, the daughter of Reul, priest in Midian. She was dark or black.

quote: I thought current archeological thought was that the Hebrews never migrated en masse into Egypt in the first place; rather there was a small number of Hebrews leaving Egypt which formed the basis of Exodus (since there were no Egyptian border records documenting this, or any other form of documentation on the Egyptian side of the story).

Current liberal thought?