17-06-2002 07:06									#61
	Put an end to popups!

quote: They don't like the *******s who inhabit the Senate, but the institution would have the respect.

And some of them would have Senators they liked. Like John McCain and Paul Wellstone.

	17-06-2002 07:10									#62
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Asher The people voting "No" to a US-style senate if you don't live in Canada or know anything about the Canadian government should stay out.

The people voting "yes" because they're from the US and are pretty sure they know what's best for everybody else should stay out too, then.

	17-06-2002 07:11									#63
	Support Apolyton

I like neither McCain nor Wellstone. The only U.S. Senators I really like are Babs Mikulski and Russ Feingold. 2 out of 100 is not a good ratio.

	17-06-2002 07:11									#64
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Asher, you edited your post! No Fair! You said "Ventura" first!!!!!!!!

He's a notorious editor. And he never notes when he edits either...

	17-06-2002 07:13									#65
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

That's ok, KH, because I edited my quoting him to reflect what he really said.

	17-06-2002 07:14									#66
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse The people voting "yes" because they're from the US and are pretty sure they know what's best for everybody else should stay out too, then.

Yes, I agree.

quote: He's a notorious editor. And he never notes when he edits either...

I edited it seconds after changing a name.

	17-06-2002 07:14									#67
	Tired of ads?

quote: I like neither McCain nor Wellstone.

Yes, and I don't like you either .

Most Americans like both (at least one of the two though). Most Americans have a Senator they like. And Most Americans like the Senate.

	17-06-2002 07:16									#68
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: You're N-U-T-S No, I think you are the nutty one . Most Americans like their Senate. I think it is a wonderful instiution.

The Senate is the worst branch of your government. No way I'm letting crap like that end up here. MtG's got the historical context right. States used to be seen as independent entities who had banded together to form a very weak union. Over time, especially due to the influence of such notables as Lincoln, this idea was relegated to the past. In today's world, the Senate serves no purpose other than advancing the will of those living in small states so that it counts more than those living in large states.

And while we're at it, the gerrymandering that gives priority to rural areas needs to stop. The government of a country is supposed to represent the will of people, not land.

	17-06-2002 07:17									#69
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Asher Yes, I agree. I edited it seconds after changing a name.

I've caught you doing it so many times that it's not funny.

	17-06-2002 07:18									#70
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

KrazyHorse serves as the typical attitude of both the federal government and most Canadians.

The majority of the population is having THEIR interests served. Canada's government exists to serve the the interests of the majority, and only the majority. This is alright by them.

Canadians are so stupid, you know that?

	17-06-2002 07:19									#71
	Tired of ads?

quote: The Senate is the worst branch of your government. No way I'm letting crap like that end up here. MtG's got the historical context right. States used to be seen as independent entities who had banded together to form a very weak union. Over time, especially due to the influence of such notables as Lincoln, this idea was relegated to the past. In today's world, the Senate serves no purpose other than advancing the will of those living in small states so that it counts more than those living in large states.

I think the Senate is the BEST branch of our government! The States need representation in the federal government. **** the big states... they can't run roughshod over the smaller ones. I won't allow our states to be like your provinces .

	17-06-2002 07:20									#72
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: I like neither McCain nor Wellstone. Yes, and I don't like you either .

If you could only see the tears that formed in my eyes when I read this.

quote: Most Americans like both (at least one of the two though). Most Americans have a Senator they like. And Most Americans like the Senate.

And again, most Americans have the common sense and taste of a potato. Why would Republicans, who spent 8 years talking about how the public will didn't matter, care what the American public thinks?

	17-06-2002 07:20									#73
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc And what exactly was wrong with that?

Now, it wouldn't make a hell of a lot of difference, since states are required to adhere to the US Constitution in their suffrage requirements.

Back in those days, the notion of simply allowing any ol' white male citizen over the age of 21 to have an indirect say in government was simply radical. The idea that common rabble without property or stature within the community should be allowed to cast judgment on who among their betters was fit to serve in the state government? Preposterous!

At the time of Dorr's Rebellion in 1842, the state of Rhode Island still operated under terms of it's royal charter from the 1660's, which placed significant land ownership requirements for suffrage. A majority of the white male population (obviously nobody else had the franchise in the US at the time) and virtually all townspeople except the few elite mill owners had no vote in state government. You had a hereditary economic nobility which operated in the limited guise of a republican government to promote it's self-interest at the expense of the disenfranchised majority.

The same issue, in modified form, was also responsible for Shay's rebellion in Massachusetts, but that was before the ratification of the Constitution.

	17-06-2002 07:23									#74
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Why would Republicans, who spent 8 years talking about how the public will didn't matter

*Cues Troll Song*

	17-06-2002 07:25									#75
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Ah, you cop out because you've been defeated. HAHAHA!

	17-06-2002 07:31									#76
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Asher KrazyHorse serves as the typical attitude of both the federal government and most Canadians. The majority of the population is having THEIR interests served. Canada's government exists to serve the the interests of the majority, and only the majority. This is alright by them. Canadians are so stupid, you know that?

Good arguments.

Me: One man, one vote

Asher: But that means I don't get my way! You're such an idiot. We should be more like those big, strong Americans. Do you think they like us? Let's send them a note.

	17-06-2002 07:34									#77
	Increase Your PM Length

Boris:

1/10

ad hominems, like you've spouted are the true signs of defeat. Eat it .

	17-06-2002 07:35									#78
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Good arguments. Me: One man, one vote Asher: But that means I don't get my way! You're such an idiot. We should be more like those big, strong Americans. Do you think they like us? Let's send them a note.

For the love of God, KrazyHorse, if you don't understand by now you'll never understand.

By a strict "one man, one vote" system it doesn't respect the rights of the minorities or the will of those minorities.

Again, if 50.0001% of the nation voted to have the socialist bastards killed, we can go ahead can do that. There's no system that lets those other 49.9999% of the people from protecting their rights, because you've ONLY got a "one person, one vote" system.

We're not talking about replacing the ENTIRE GOVERNMENT with the Senate. We're talking about replacing our USELESS Senate with a Senate that acts as a balance of power to keep the Liberals from having too much power.

If you still don't understand, then it's so very clear to me why you like socialism. You don't seem to understand much of all outside of math and physics.

	17-06-2002 07:36									#79
	Support Apolyton

I have to agree with Asher... one man, one vote, tramples on minority rights.

	17-06-2002 07:36									#80
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Asher, why do you insist on tying in the protections of a Constitution with the unlevel playing field of a US-style Senate?

	17-06-2002 07:37									#81
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Imran, I thought you were able to draw more subtle distinctions than that. Read my above comment.

	17-06-2002 07:38									#82
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Boris:

You seem to suffer from acute narcolepsy

quote: 1/10

Are you the DL for MrFun? I knew it!

quote: ad hominems, like you've spouted are the true signs of defeat.

Ad hominem? Where? What? Huh?

quote: Eat it .

*Gets aroused*

	17-06-2002 07:38									#83
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Asher If you still don't understand, then it's so very clear to me why you like socialism. You don't seem to understand much of all outside of math and physics.

Har har. You don't agree with me, so you're ignorant/stupid.

	17-06-2002 07:39									#84
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I have... but I agree with Asher on this one.

You are a commie, you like direct democracy. I abhor it .

	17-06-2002 07:40									#85
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Ad hominem? Where? What? Huh?

Um... may I remind you, the Republican jibe.

And if you are going to say what I think you (that is just the truth), I'd like to point out that is another ad hominem. Loser .

	17-06-2002 07:41									#86
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I didn't say I liked direct democracy. I'm in favour of Constitutional protection of certain basic rights and freedoms, and I'm in favour of representative democracy. I'm simply not in favour of assigning more representation per population to those who live in certain areas than in others.

	17-06-2002 07:41									#87
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Asher, why do you insist on tying in the protections of a Constitution with the unlevel playing field of a US-style Senate?

Are you aware of just how useless the Canadian Constitution is, KrazyHorse?

The constitution hasn't stopped the NEP. The constitution hasn't kicked the liberal's asses in gear to redraw the ridings. The constitution hasn't stopped the government from doing REALLY stupid stuff like canceling the Military Helicopter contracts at a massive penalty, only to reorder SHITTIER helicopters a few years later at a greater cost, etc.

We need a useful Senate that takes away Liberal-majority power. Whether that's a system like the US' (which I think works great for the US), or whether it's a system based on proportional representation doesn't really matter to me.

The Liberal dictatorship must be stopped.

	17-06-2002 07:43									#88
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Ad hominem? Where? What? Huh? Um... may I remind you, the Republican jibe. And if you are going to say what I think you (that is just the truth), I'd like to point out that is another ad hominem. Loser .

Hey, I was just pointing out the fallacy of asserting that something is good just because a majority of people like it. Isn't that, in fact, what you're trying to prevent by favoring a U.S.-style Senate?

WHAM he brings it to relevancy.

BTW, I think your assertion is flat-out wrong. Most Americans dislike both branches of congress. You're just talking out of your posterior.

	17-06-2002 07:44									#89
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: I'm simply not in favour of assigning more representation per population to those who live in certain areas than in others.

In different states? Why shouldn't each state (which has a lot of its own seperate laws) have equal representation in ONE branch of the federal government?

You think the UN should have reprensation for each country based on population (I bet). I don't... or at least have that be the lower house.

	17-06-2002 07:45									#90
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Most Americans dislike both branches of congress.

I totally disagree. 100% in fact. They'd rather have that than Proportional Representation.