18-06-2002 19:12									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Solver That statement about Palestenian animals has now appeared in two threads. As I said, Israel wouldn't end terror if they stopped the so-called occupation, which actually is just living on their territory. The aim of Hamas and Fatah is destroying the Hebrew nation, killing each single Hebrew there is. That's also the aim of bin Laden. Why do people fail to see the associatons here?

No. In this case there would have more Israeli death. Because suicide-bombing is not an efficient way to kill all israelis. it's an weapon of terror in order to serve a political goal : have a palestinian state with the biggest part of land as possible.

If they would really to kil all Hebrew, they could polute water supply or source with poisons or bacteria.

If all palestinian would to kill Israeli, why they don't attack in group farms & villages ?

	18-06-2002 19:13									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse I saw a program last night about the situation in the West Bank. One of the interesting aspects of the program was the evidence of the humiliation of Palestinian civilians by Israeli army soldiers. The program interviewed several Israeli army reservists, some named with face to camera, and they talked about the ways their units harrass Palestinian civilians trying to go about their daily lives. They said some Israeli army units were notorious for thinking up new ways to abuse Palestinians every day. Most of the harrassment happens at Israeli army checkpoints. Some of the things they do: . When they are searching a car, they take the keys away and either throw them away or refuse to give them back, sometimes for hours at a time or not at all. . They take ID cards and make the Palestinian wait at the checkpoint. Sometimes they don't give the papers back at all, which means the Pal might lose their job in Israel. . They pick out young Palestinian men, the favorite is to pick out 3 for some reason, and make them do humiliating things like kick each other in the arse, spit on each other or sing Israeli army songs for the amusement of Israeli troops. One mother of a suicide bomber said that the daily humiliation by Israeli soldiers was what pushed her son over the edge. He couldn't take it any more and blew himself up at the army check point where he had faced daily abuse like the above. Imagine if you had to put up with that sh*t or watch your mother or father humiliated like that every day.

Did the Aussie guards at the detention centers around Australia watch this video Horsie?

	18-06-2002 19:15									#33
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quote: Originally posted by ZoboZeWarrior If they would really to kil all Hebrew, they could polute water supply or source with poisons or bacteria.

They were always attempting to do it.

quote: If all palestinian would to kill Israeli, why they don't attack in group farms & villages ?

Hard to organize and to keep secret.
18 hours before the suicide bomber blew up today Israeli intelligence had his name, picture and information on the amount of explosives he had. It's extremely difficult to hide an organization of such scale from Israel.

	18-06-2002 19:16									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber Did the Aussie guards at the detention centers around Australia watch this video Horsie?

AH thinks John Howard's a right ****, and that his immigration policies are for ****, IIRC.

	18-06-2002 19:27									#35
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Hamas has just said that Palestine cannot be liberated by suicide bombing. They did say, however, that Gaza and the West Bank could be.

	18-06-2002 19:31									#36
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Yes ... But ...

quote: Originally posted by Eli They were always attempting to do it.

Yes ... but when ? I've not heard news about Israelis poisoned by water.
I haven't heard news about terrorists killed while atepting to polute water supply.

quote: Originally posted by Eli Hard to organize and to keep secret. 18 hours before the suicide bomber blew up today Israeli intelligence had his name, picture and information on the amount of explosives he had. It's extremely difficult to hide an organization of such scale from Israel.

Yes ... But he wasn't stopped. Why ?
I've never heard event such "Isreali intelligence prevented an attack of a jewish village by a dozen of palestinian gunmen."

	18-06-2002 19:31									#37
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse AH thinks John Howard's a right ****, and that his immigration policies are for ****, IIRC.

then he should make countless thread about it and actually do something there instead of fulling his fetish of Palistin worship here. Don't you think?

	18-06-2002 19:32									#38
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[troll]
They should just dump millions of gallons of jet fuel over Gaza and the West Bank and burn it to the ground

They could give a 2 day warning, I suppose.
[/troll]

	18-06-2002 19:35									#39
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[troll]

Sava, like all Americans, enjoy to smell of burning napalm and to see 3th degree burned running childrens.

[/troll]

	18-06-2002 20:07									#40
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You know, there were some Belgian peacekeepers who forced Somali muslims to eat worms about a decade ago - this is the sort of stuff armies have to deal with.

I'm not in a position to evaluate how well Israel disciplines its troops, so I won't attempt to do so.

I wonder if those who use this to excuse the suicide bombers would accept it if an Israeli killed a bunch of Palestinian children and said he had to do it because he couldn't take not being able to leave his house for fear of suicide bombers . . .

	18-06-2002 20:11									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber then he should make countless thread about it and actually do something there instead of fulling his fetish of Palistin worship here. Don't you think?

Then only Howard-supporting Aussies would rise to the occasion. This gets a better audience...

	18-06-2002 20:13									#42
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NATAN'S BACK!

	18-06-2002 20:13									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Natan You know, there were some Belgian peacekeepers who forced Somali muslims to eat worms about a decade ago - this is the sort of stuff armies have to deal with

Thanks for not mentioning Canada's ****-ups in Somalia (though those involved weren't peacekeepers, but were backup for the American hunt for that warlord whose name escapes me).

	18-06-2002 20:20									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Natan I wonder if those who use this to excuse the suicide bombers would accept it if an Israeli killed a bunch of Palestinian children and said he had to do it because he couldn't take not being able to leave his house for fear of suicide bombers . . .

This article is based on real facts. But it gives a false impression that such events are common. Its goal is mainly propaganda.

	18-06-2002 20:21									#45
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Thanks chegitz, you're a pal.

All the evidence I've seen on this issue is completely anecdotal, and I have a strong feeling that anyone who says they have statistics for this is lying. Basically, the Palestinians have their stories about how Israeli soldiers steal from people, beat them up, or smash their stuff for its own sake. Israelis have their stories about Israeli soldiers who brought along treats for Palestinian children during Defensive Shield, and about soldiers who mop the floor and leave behind compensation money for damage done in firefights before leaving Palestinian homes. No one has any real way of evaluating the accuracy of these stories, and little way of evaluating which are a better characterization of the army's behavior.

	18-06-2002 20:22									#46
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Sava, should Israel wish to destroy everything, they posess nuclear weapons.

	18-06-2002 20:30									#47
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Hamas has just said that Palestine cannot be liberated by suicide bombing. They did say, however, that Gaza and the West Bank could be.

Does this imply that Hamas' goal is more than liberating Gaza and West Bank in order to estabkish a Palestinian stater?

	18-06-2002 20:34									#48
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Yes. Hamas' stated goal is the return of all of "Palestine" (british mandate area, I suppose) to hands of Palestinian people.

	18-06-2002 20:37									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Does this imply that Hamas' goal is more than liberating Gaza and West Bank in order to estabkish a Palestinian stater?

.

	18-06-2002 20:46									#50
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You know, it's funny that you mention this. My province issues drivers licenses with a map of Quebec that includes all of Labrador (which belongs to Newfoundland). Are you suggesting that my provincial government has plans to violently annex Labrador if and when they achieve sovereignty?

	18-06-2002 20:46									#51
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Propaganda.

	18-06-2002 20:48									#52
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Cute picture, Eli, but you seem to be ignoring that all of Palestine is their historical homeland.

	18-06-2002 20:52									#53
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse You know, it's funny that you mention this. My province issues drivers licenses with a map of Quebec that includes all of Labrador (which belongs to Newfoundland). Are you suggesting that my provincial government has plans to violently annex Labrador if and when they achieve sovereignty?

If they start sending suicide bombers into Labrador we might have to entertain that thought seriously.

	18-06-2002 20:54									#54
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Hamas is serious about grabbing all of Israel (Lord knows how they think they could do it). Arafat seems to be willing to live with Israel if he can get what he wants on final border status. (At least he says he is).

	18-06-2002 20:55									#55
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Chegitz, all of the USA is historical homeland to many native american tribes. What if they got arms and started killing American civilians and blowing up buildings?

	18-06-2002 20:56									#56
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And if Newfoundland was busy colonising the St. Lawrence Valley, you might just see that happen.

	18-06-2002 20:57									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Chegitz, all of the USA is historical homeland to many native american tribes. What if they got arms and started killing American civilians and blowing up buildings?

I think Chegitz' point is not that the Palestinians are realistically going to (or should) get all of Palestine back, but that it's understandable for them to use symbols like that for their insignia.

	18-06-2002 21:03									#58
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What KH said.

If American Indians started putting maps of their traditional homelands on their political slogans, I wouldn't think that would mean they were planning the extermination of the US. BTW, they have arms.

	18-06-2002 21:10									#59
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I didn't know they have arms. Are the arms of native americans are comparison to the modern arms, or are those some old ww1 rifles?

	18-06-2002 21:20									#60
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None of the Israeli apologizers on this thread wanted to answer my question, so I guess I'm posing it again.

Since you seem to be united in the view that these soliders are not representative of Israel or IDF, what are your views of Arafats culpability in terrorist attacks?

Of course, Sharons history shows that he will never take responsibility of the actions of men under his command, but he is always eager to blame Arafat for actions carried out by Arafats political rivals...