21-06-2002 01:32									#61
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quote: Originally posted by JohnIII Yes, that was what he was doing, and I agree with you that Northern Hemisphere rugby is superior.

	21-06-2002 01:34									#62
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Nice one Chris. Looks like all the eurocoms got what they deserved.

	21-06-2002 01:46									#63
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damn them

	21-06-2002 01:50									#64
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Yes, being Brits we get to laugh at the whole US vs Europe thing rather smugly, knowing that in Mornington Crescent's Ministry of Serendipity, we have the secret government of the world.

	21-06-2002 01:51									#65
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Regardless of Hypocrisy of posters or governments, what this message clearly tells is that their is a genuine fear by the Euro govs that the ICC would be a kangaroo court. Any nation acting in a policing capacity for the UN would be putting themsleves at risk. And since the US is in most/many instances the police force du jour for the UN it would be most at risk. Seems the Euro's have justified the US stance 100%.

Big mean old US.

	21-06-2002 01:59									#66
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Hear, hear Ogie!

	21-06-2002 02:00									#67
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark given the host nation consents - well considering the situation Afghan is in, their desperate need for peacekeepers, did they really have any choice but to agee? I mean if you can do this, I suppose we could have gotten consent from the govt of the Republic of Viet Nam. The real point, if the court is to be fair, and if (as the US has been told) it wont impact countries that have their own bona fide judicial systems to deal with war crimes, WHY did the euro govt think this deal to be necessary??? Evidently they think the court MIGHT be invoked against peacekeepers from democratic countries, and they are NOT willing to trust their soldiers to its mercies. But those are just the arguments the US has been making. Please help me here - I dont like unilateralism, and Id really like to be for this court, but the Euro action does seem to confirm the opinions of the unilateralists. LOTM

Excellent post.

	21-06-2002 02:03									#68
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quote: The agreement was reached in "a great rush" and with no public debate, a U.N.-based European diplomat said.

It seems pretty obvious that the people of these European states haven't had the chance to oppose their goverments.

	21-06-2002 02:04									#69
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Could someone remind me what punishments were levied as a result of My Lai? No, don't bother.

That's why we need this court, and I'd happily piss on the grave of any politician who tries to wriggle out of it. Whichever nation they happen to infect.

	21-06-2002 02:08									#70
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Hear, Hear... Laz, er... Ron Jeremy.

	21-06-2002 02:16									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Ron Jeremy Could someone remind me what punishments were levied as a result of My Lai? No, don't bother. That's why we need this court, and I'd happily piss on the grave of any politician who tries to wriggle out of it. Whichever nation they happen to infect.

Well said.

This loophole is nuts. I can see it being invoked in every peacekeeping operation. But I guess that hardly any government would have signed if it wasn't there. Such is political reality.

Hopefully, it can be closed in future amendments.

	21-06-2002 02:18									#72
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Jack: You'd have to allow the ICC Prosecutor to be allowed to bring cases of his accord. This loophole is nuts, and these governments should be ashamed for doing it.

	21-06-2002 02:22									#73
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Could someone point out the offending loophole in the Rome Statute? I admit to missing it in my first reading of it.

	21-06-2002 02:29									#74
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Imran, I thnk the ICC does permit the Prosecutor to bring cases regardless of a request of a member state which is the victim of war crimes, etc.. The only requirement is that the action be against a national of a state that has signed the ICC.

	21-06-2002 02:34									#75
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quote: Imran, I thnk the ICC does permit the Prosecutor to bring cases regardless of a request of a member state which is the victim of war crimes, etc.. The only requirement is that the action be against a national of a state that has signed the ICC.

In that case, then Europe's pressuring Afghanistan to sign this garbage would be totally useless, would it not?

	21-06-2002 02:40									#76
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OH NO! My Eurocom Mind Control Chip (EMCC) is making me hypocritically defend this policy!

The instructions were beamed down to me last night, and I can't help but to do what they say. Chris is doing the world a great service in exposI UNCONDITIONALLY AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THE EU SAYS OR DOES. I ALSO CONDEMN EVERYTHING THE US DOES. WE ARE THE EUROCOM.

	21-06-2002 02:46									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Jaakko WE ARE THE EUROCOM.

YOU WILL STAND DOWN YOUR ARMIES AND PREPARE TO BE ASSIMILATED. YOUR BIOLOGICAL AND TECHNOLOGICAL DISTINCTIVENESS WILL BE ADDED TO OUR OWN. RESISTANCE IS AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN FUTILE.

	21-06-2002 03:09									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Ron Jeremy Could someone remind me what punishments were levied as a result of My Lai? No, don't bother. That's why we need this court, and I'd happily piss on the grave of any politician who tries to wriggle out of it. Whichever nation they happen to infect.

Calley got 20 years if I remember. The sentence was commuted so that he only served about 6 months. But all our ICC proponents have said that cases where the host country tries the case will not be reviewed by the ICC. Get the story straight.

	21-06-2002 03:11									#80
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Actually, I think "peacekeepers" should be prosecuted if they "permit" crimes against humanity in their area of jurisdiction without a legitimate attempt to resist the perpetrators.

The Dutch are as guilty as the Serbs for Sebrenicia.

	21-06-2002 03:14									#81
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You know, all you boys are doing is making yourselves look dumber.

Complaing because I mis-spelled a word!

What a bunch of jack-as$es!

I made it clear whom this was aimed at, the idiots that lauched attacks at the USA in the world court threads, you idiots stepped right into a bullseye, if you don't like it, then smarten up and stop your childish attacks, you are FAR easier to shoot down then we will ever be!

Kropotkin, you are a someone who is...less then favorable, doesn't matter what the thread is.
I'll put my knowledge in the real world and my education against yours anytime tough guy, and you'll come up short, in ALL areas.

Reds4Ever, another "genius" who likes to attack me, did I hurt your feelings sweetums? I hope so.

See what I mean about you Red_Jon?
Childish as ever.

Spartak: Ha ha!

	21-06-2002 03:16									#82
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quote: The Dutch are as guilty as the Serbs for Sebrenicia

Yep, that they are. They should be tried for that.

	21-06-2002 03:44									#83
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Glad you liked it Chris.

	21-06-2002 05:29									#84
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I'm utterly disgusted by the hypocrisy demonstrated by the UK government. This is truly outrageous. If ministers can get sacked over dodgy e-mails, someone's head should roll over this. Un-bloody-believable.

I can only hope that this deal was negotiated by a minor civil servant, rather than the whole government being behind it.

quote: I think a fellow named Sandman should read the article closely, he had a lot to say previously.

I made three short posts. But this is interesting stuff. Do you have any other links? Normally you post three or four.

	21-06-2002 05:54									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman I can only hope that this deal was negotiated by a minor civil servant, rather than the whole government being behind it.

Does the UK let minor civil servants have this much power? I would think that they would have more control over their minor civil servants than this.

quote: Hopefully, it can be closed in future amendments.

I believe this whole business about changing the statute after the fact is what has most people worried.

	21-06-2002 05:56									#86
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Well you can change the Constitution of the US through amendment. I'm sure people were worried about that. Do you believe that amendments should be ended in the US?

You can't have a statute that is totally rigid, or else it wouldn't be sufficient in say 100 years, because there might be other things that should be covered. How would you deal with that outside of amendments?

	21-06-2002 05:58									#87
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Ahem!

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Could someone point out the offending loophole in the Rome Statute? I admit to missing it in my first reading of it.

	21-06-2002 06:00									#88
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quote: Originally posted by GP Calley got 20 years if I remember. The sentence was commuted so that he only served about 6 months. But all our ICC proponents have said that cases where the host country tries the case will not be reviewed by the ICC. Get the story straight.

And Calley got screwed, no matter how you approach it.

	21-06-2002 06:05									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Well you can change the Constitution of the US through amendment. I'm sure people were worried about that. Do you believe that amendments should be ended in the US? You can't have a statute that is totally rigid, or else it wouldn't be sufficient in say 100 years, because there might be other things that should be covered. How would you deal with that outside of amendments?

You continue to treat this as if it is our constitution Imran. In case you have forgotten, It isn't. The constitution is changed by our respresentatives either on national and state level. A little different from what you want.


You also have more faith in the document then the countries that wanted it implimented. Maybe you should look at their deeds instead of the pretty words they use.

	21-06-2002 06:10									#90
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Nothing is written in stone here. We grasp the need for change.