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Wernazuma III
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Decolonize!
Aug 2000
time: 06:20
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Just from reading the first page, I've got to add a bit.
Why would Austrians be such a laughable choice? I mean, there's even the Italians as a choice! 
No, really: What's so stupid about it? Because Austrians were the first to defeat Napoleon in a land battle? Because they and the Polish (probably laughable too???) were those who stopped the Turks from marching through Europe? Because they were part of the german military in WWII?
The only really pathetic nation are the Italians. They lost I think every war. They managed to lose every war victoriously though, what accounts for their cleverness. In the Risorgimento all battles between Italians and Austrians were won by the Austrians. We lost the decisive ones though against the French...
In WWI they joined the Allies although they had treaties with Germany and Austria. Probably they simply did so, because they thought that the Central Pwers would lose anyway. The Austrian army crushed the Italian forces driving them in front of them through northern Italy. But smart as the Italians are they had chosen the stronger allies so they again won a lost war...
(here's a nice joke for you from WWI:
Der Kaiser ward gefragt: Sind denn die Italiener tüchtig?
Der Kaiser sagt: Das weiß ich nicht, ich kenne sie nur
flüchtig."
In English it could be:
The emperor was asked: Are italians quite cunning?
The emperor says: Well, I don't know, I've seen them only running.)
And then, WWII, what shall I say? If I had to give a monocausal reason why the Germans lost WWII, I'd say: The Italians. Whether in Africa or Russia, Italian Batallions and Divisions were nothing but a pain in the as*! And they had the great idea to invade Greece. They failed so badly that Hitler had to invade the Balkans, what split his forces severely, forces he badly needed in the upcoming years in Russia... There was a German saying that an italian tank has 5 gears: 1 forward and 4 back...
Now we could think, the Italians chose the wrong ally. Well, yes they did, but they noticed early enough to revolt, switch sides and turn it into a draw...
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VetLegion
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quote:
We decided to make peace, and that meant germans couldn't use our land for attacking any more. That's far from stabbing in the back. |
after germans give you weapons ammo, it is actually book definition fo backstabbing 
quote:
Why would Austrians be such a laughable choice? |
quote to me battles Austrians won themselves? austrian forces always consisted of the subjugated peoples in the empire, croats, slovenians, hungarians, checz, polish and ofcourse germans,austrians.
about the turks? bah being a croatian I know what happened, see you northerners paid the taxes which king spent on defence, but we did disproportionate amount of actual fighting and bleeding
btw I never said Austrians are 'laughable choice'  they are ok choice but there is no more place in the poll
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Wernazuma III
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Decolonize!
Aug 2000
time: 06:20
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quote:
quote to me battles Austrians won themselves? austrian forces always consisted of the subjugated peoples in the empire, croats, slovenians, hungarians, checz, polish and ofcourse germans,austrians. |
If you define Austrians like this, there is no Austrians at all! I don't agree with you that those peoples were subjugated (BTW: If they were, wouldn't that account for our military?...). Slovenians were as little or much subjects of the Habsburgs as "German" Austrians were. The opinion that they were "subjugated" is from the 19th century only (and quite a bit true in this period, due to german-austrian nationalism).
If the "subjugated" would be the core of the military, don't you think they would have freed themselves?
You want battles? Some examples:
Turkish Wars:
Extract: Vienna; Karlowitz; Belgrad;
Napoleonic Wars:
Aspern-Essling; First land battle ever won against Napoleon
2 out of 3 battles in the heroic fight of Tyrolean partisans against French and Bavarian forces during Napoleonic occupation
WWIseveral Isonzo battles; defeating Serbia...
quote:
about the turks? bah being a croatian I know what happened, see you northerners paid the taxes which king spent on defence, but we did disproportionate amount of actual fighting and bleeding
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Pah, we "northeners" bleeded quite a bit too. The Turks raided my area several times. We simply were strong enough to fend them off, so we didn't have to bleed for such a long time. 
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Giovanni Wine
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Torino, Italian Wine Capital
May 2002
time: 06:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Wernazuma III
Just from reading the first page, I've got to add a bit.
Why would Austrians be such a laughable choice? I mean, there's even the Italians as a choice!
No, really: What's so stupid about it? Because Austrians were the first to defeat Napoleon in a land battle? Because they and the Polish (probably laughable too???) were those who stopped the Turks from marching through Europe? Because they were part of the german military in WWII?
The only really pathetic nation are the Italians. They lost I think every war. They managed to lose every war victoriously though, what accounts for their cleverness. In the Risorgimento all battles between Italians and Austrians were won by the Austrians. We lost the decisive ones though against the French...
In WWI they joined the Allies although they had treaties with Germany and Austria. Probably they simply did so, because they thought that the Central Pwers would lose anyway. The Austrian army crushed the Italian forces driving them in front of them through northern Italy. But smart as the Italians are they had chosen the stronger allies so they again won a lost war...
(here's a nice joke for you from WWI:
Der Kaiser ward gefragt: Sind denn die Italiener tüchtig?
Der Kaiser sagt: Das weiß ich nicht, ich kenne sie nur
flüchtig."
In English it could be:
The emperor was asked: Are italians quite cunning?
The emperor says: Well, I don't know, I've seen them only running.)
And then, WWII, what shall I say? If I had to give a monocausal reason why the Germans lost WWII, I'd say: The Italians. Whether in Africa or Russia, Italian Batallions and Divisions were nothing but a pain in the as*! And they had the great idea to invade Greece. They failed so badly that Hitler had to invade the Balkans, what split his forces severely, forces he badly needed in the upcoming years in Russia... There was a German saying that an italian tank has 5 gears: 1 forward and 4 back...
Now we could think, the Italians chose the wrong ally. Well, yes they did, but they noticed early enough to revolt, switch sides and turn it into a draw... |
Ehmm...
So what?
Everything you say is true but.... people can choose to fight alongside Italy (if they are crazy/stupid enough) even if we suck as soldiers, many people fought with us during many wars, the Italian-American New York Major Fiorello La Guardia is a very good example, during WW1 he went to the Italian front as a pilot, and he achieved the Italian silver cross for militaristic achievement.
I mean... we are extremely poor soldiers and very bad fighters (no shame in admiting that IMHO), but why does that should preclud peopefrom chosing to fight with us?
Saluti
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22-06-2002 20:17
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