04-07-2002 23:12									#31
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Anyway, why isn't the USA grateful for the French, who helped the US gain it's independence in the first place. Without France, this wouldn't have happened.

	04-07-2002 23:13									#32
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quote: You'll have to forgive us for not wanting to jump feet first into another senseless, preventable European war.

Why? The USA thrives on European wars.

	04-07-2002 23:26									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Anyway, why isn't the USA grateful for the French, who helped the US gain it's independence in the first place. Without France, this wouldn't have happened.

We were, up until the French became obnoxiously ungrateful to the U.S.A. following WWII. If they can't be grateful, why should we?

	04-07-2002 23:28									#34
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So your reply is:

They started!!


Once again it shows that two wrongs make a right in the USA.


If you want Europe to be grateful for what you did, show us some gratitude too. And especcially the French.

	04-07-2002 23:32									#35
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So, how about we stop our $billions in aid? That's not gratitude enough?

We rebuilt Europe after Europe tore itself apart. I think the balance is mightily in our favor for the past century.

	04-07-2002 23:40									#36
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Americans of the 1940s and 50s did.

I am grateful that America helped Europe and the world but I see no reason to be grateful to the average American today, especially the obnoxious teenager who shouts "We saved yer asses" when the closest they came to doing so was watching Saving Private Ryan.

	04-07-2002 23:42									#37
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quote: We rebuilt Europe after Europe tore itself apart.

In your interest. It isn't because you wanted to help us (Britain recieved far less than Germany, relative to the damage caused by the war), but because you feared Communism would spread.

	04-07-2002 23:59									#38
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Most Europeans, if not necessarily most of the Europeans who post here, are quite aware of what the US accomplished for Europe last century; it's stalwart defense of European democracy in WWII, the Marshall Aid, and not least the Cold War, during which America, and America alone, prevented the other half of this continent from falling into Soviet hands.

And most of us appreciate that. A lot. Really.

However, it's a sad fact of life that it isn't easy being grateful. The US is not the first benefactor in history to find out that graditude generates resentment. We've all experienced it on a personal level, right? Add to that the envy American superiority in every field - be it industry, science, culture or pure unadulterated might - generates and you get a lot of the kind of childish whining 'bout America we see so much of on these boards. That, of course, does not change the fact that the overwhelming majority of Europeans know, and know it well, what we owe the Americans for a service well beyond the line of duty.

Or knew. I'll be darned if I know whether the nanosecond attension span generation will even consider Bosnia before yelling "but what have you done for us lately"? That, however, is a problem you share with us, innit?

Let me just conclude on this day, the fourth of July, that you can rest assured that depite all the crud you hear from the rants and trolls here the vast majority of Europeans would happily join me in expressing their best wishes to the American people, who have done such peerless services to democracy in the past and who stand again at the forefront of the battle against the latest form of fascism to win popular support in the world.

As for me personally, I hope to see Pax Americana - and all that it entails - last well beyond my lifespan.

"This is downtown Judy Brown. God bless in America, and in Europe too!"

	05-07-2002 00:05									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 Leave history to historians rogan, because you obviously don't know jack about it

Leave thinking to the snae people Chris, because its not your forte.

quote: I'm not talking "US Flag waving" here.

Aren't you the one who just posted this?

http://www.rootsweb.com/~tnweakle/USA1777.jpg

quote: Not so long as Churchill was PM

Don't get me started on that traitor.

quote: I'll put this country's history up vs Britain's any day, and you will lose. In a landslide.

You see, that is the whole problem with you types - you are always trying to 'win'. Life isn't all about 'winning' you know.

You not only want America to take credit for winning the war, you want to take personal credit for something which happened before you were born!

I don't feel guilty about Britain's imperial past because I wasn't a part of it.

quote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but how many big terror attacks have there been since 9/11? ZERO is the answer.

Something tells me you only count terror attacks in the US. Don't you think the rest of the world is worth anything, or is any amount of US originating terror OK to inflict on other peoples as long as it keeps your beer cool of the 4th of July?

quote: Your probaly the only guy that could manage to annoy me today, I knew you wouldn't fail.

Happy to please - I feel like my day has been worth while now

	05-07-2002 00:17									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Jaakko Ahhh, nothing like a US-Euro bar fight to cheer up a 4th of July! Go get 'em lads!

ROFL it's the Apolyton way to celevrate July 4th


Happy 4th of July !!

* MarkG marks next year's March 25th to ask for everyone to thank the Greeks for the Western civilization

	05-07-2002 00:24									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Anyway, why isn't the USA grateful for the French, who helped the US gain it's independence in the first place. Without France, this wouldn't have happened.

Naked oppurtunism. Fortunately, we learned well from Europe's "Kick an emeny while he's down"
Those british troops at Yorktown would of been evacuated, and sent where? To Re-Invade? Despite the fact we threw back 2 other Invasions? The contintenal army was getting larger and more capable each year.


But thanks france anyway! We repaid you twice.

	05-07-2002 00:29									#42
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All I have to say is, thank God Europe is no longer responsible for us. 300 years of wars, enslavement, Imperialism, and foriegn monopolies.

	05-07-2002 00:31									#43
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I lilke the way that people are going "Europe ought to be grateful, because we saved your arse in WW2", and "Well, America ought to be grateful to France for their help during the War of Independence", and all this ****.

Sit back for a minute and think. How many of you here were involved in either of those? Not a single bloody one of you. Stop leeching off the success of others and using it to fuel your own allusions of grandeur

Besides, I've heard some of the Americans say that they don't care what Europeans think. Fair enough: sometimes I sympathise with you. But if this is the case, then why do you care whether we're grateful to you or not?

Just a question.

	05-07-2002 00:32									#44
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quote: But thanks france anyway! We repaid you twice.

In WW1 American help was merely usefull, not crucial.

	05-07-2002 00:35									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Anyway, why isn't the USA grateful for the French, who helped the US gain it's independence in the first place. Without France, this wouldn't have happened.

we are.

what did we say during the world wars when he aided the french? "Lafayette[sp?], we are here".

We're even as far as i can tell.

	05-07-2002 00:36									#46
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and if you want to go in to "why didnt the US help france with the French Revolution, it's just obvious that we didnt have the power too, that plus Washington's Neutrality speeches.

	05-07-2002 00:37									#47
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what do world wars have to do with the U.S.?

Let's talk about the war for independence please

	05-07-2002 00:40									#48
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ok, i'll say it.

I'm an American thanking France for aid in the American Revolution. You deserve today as much as we do. Cheers.

Also, thanks for the Statue of Liberty. It shall forever (minus a terrorist attack) be a lasting bond between our two great nations.

	05-07-2002 00:40									#49
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If you consider helping tip the balance sufficiently to avoid a few more million deaths "useful"....

Rogan- you're wrong. Britain was fighting hard but was in very bad shape economically. Without major assistance from the US we'd have been choked off in a few years. Any such "peace treaty" would have been one that left Britain as little more than a semi-independent vassal state with a far-right government. We wouldn't have had an empire either. India was always going to break free, and (let's be blunt) the other bits weren't that valuable.

	05-07-2002 00:44									#50
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"In WW1 American help was merely usefull, not crucial."

True, True...it probably would of ended in a stalemate which allowed the germans continued occupation of belgium and more of a ceasefire then the versaille treaty. the BEF and French armies werent going to counter attack anytime soon without fresh troops. France was bled dry and Britian was heading down that path.And I doubt germany had the stomach for another go at Paris. So you would of had much more unfavorable results for the allies. Which may have been enough to prevent world war2. But we could of done that with the real life armistice. But despites Wilsons plea's not to punish germany. The Europeans pressed on forced Germany to pay billions. Which, alas. Lead to the rise of the Nazi's and the second world war.

I agree with Paul. This is retarded. I only know a handful people who have fought in these wars and none of us really dont give a ****. We are just cheerleading for our side on stupid forum. Think about it? Its kind of pathetic.

	05-07-2002 00:49									#51
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Even before our government declared war. Thousands of Americans who believed we should get involved enlisted for the Canadian armys. The Laffeyyete Federation was one of them. A volunteer unit which fought in the Battle of France. A good portion of the pilots who fought in the battle of britian where americans who enlisted in the Canadian branch of the Air Force. These people volunteered to help, they had nothing to gain but respect. You shouldnt disrespect them

	05-07-2002 00:54									#52
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actually the U.S. may be at fault for ww2. . If Germany had a more favourable position after ww1 who knows.

Err wait we are supposed to be talking about independence and naked women.

	05-07-2002 00:54									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov We were, up until the French became obnoxiously ungrateful to the U.S.A. following WWII. If they can't be grateful, why should we?

Because we did not spent the 60 next years after your independance constantly waving our flag in your face and reminding you "we saved your arses".


Well, I AM grateful to USA. I LIKE to be grateful. I am just someone with a deep sense of loyalty, I like to thank people for what they did for me (and to thank nations for what they did to mine).
Still, there is nothing to cold down the thanks than acting like a prick. I would have been one of the firts to thank USA, but you know, seeing a post from ones of the kind of Chris62 or Faded Glory is sufficient to kill any sense of gratitude for some years.
Just can't imagine I could thank someone like that. It would be an insult to the others that receive the same thank.

	05-07-2002 01:15									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident actually the U.S. may be at fault for ww2. . If Germany had a more favourable position after ww1 who knows. Err wait we are supposed to be talking about independence and naked women.

Unless your trolling you can in no way blame the rise of Nazi's and there aggression on America. Europe can be blamed. Both for ruining the German economy in the 1920's and allowing the Nazi's to come power. And for allowing germany to get away with stunts in Austria, Rhineland, Sudetan, and Chezhloslovakia.

See if Brazil was doing all this now, in South America. Do you think we would let them get away with it? Point made.

	05-07-2002 01:17									#55
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"Because we did not spent the 60 next years after your independance constantly waving our flag in your face and reminding you "we saved your arses". "

How do you know? Where you there? Tell us about it. I'de love to hear. I thought men the likes of Napoelon made it clear there power by using these examples.

	05-07-2002 01:30									#56
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Yep, time to thank for US sacrifices especially during ww2.
I would also like to thank finnish veterans for stopping the communism spreading to europe from northern front. Without any help. It is often forgot who gave Stalin the biggest spanking

	05-07-2002 01:37									#57
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I would also like to thank the US for providing equipment to the Soviets for use against Finland.

Okay, that's silly, but so is Americans asking Finns for gratitude in WW2.

	05-07-2002 01:45									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Jaakko Okay, that's silly, but so is Americans asking Finns for gratitude in WW2.

Considering the fact that you were allied with the Nazis, I would agree with you.

	05-07-2002 01:46									#59
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dinodoc, study history. we were not allied with Nazis.

	05-07-2002 01:52									#60
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Dino, did you know that the US never declared war with Finland in WW2?
And did you know that Finnish Jews willingly fought side by side with their fellow Finns?