06-07-2002 01:09									#151
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the subject he asked your opinion on is different then what he's ignoring you on.

	06-07-2002 01:13									#152
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that was private Chris!

	06-07-2002 01:13									#153
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quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 You boys are the real comedienes, if you believe a fifth of what you post your either mentally defective, downright trolling or have the IQ of a turnip. When you want a real honest debate about the USA, let me know. You want to keep up the "America sucks", I'll keep ripping you. And as for putting me on ignore, go ahead, just another victory for me.

Great, Chris. If all else fails, wave your flag and call your oponents names. You really are a true american...

	06-07-2002 01:13									#154
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Forget it, your not making the connection.

	06-07-2002 01:18									#155
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus that was private Chris!

Thought you wern't listening Mark.

quote: Great, Chris. If all else fails, wave your flag and call your oponents names. You really are a true american

Yes, I am, and there is nothing wrong with that.

You play a little game, called "assume he's a super-patriot" and work your answers from there.

Try a true debate, with facts, if you even understand the word.

And while were on the case of stup[idity, do you know that little device you so proudly display as an avatar was the symbol of a regime that oppressed it's people horribly, murdered them at will, imprisioned them for even daring to hope for freedom?

You couldn't have picked a more childish way to represent yourself then to use the hammer and sikle in a red star.

I guess all those dead don't mean much to you, do they?

And you wonder why I hold you in contempt.
That's as cute as jokes about jews in ovens.

	06-07-2002 01:23									#156
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KX is a spoiled middle-class brat who can't face up to the fact that the welfare state won't do for him as it did for his parents, and who thinks pissing on the hundereds of millions of murdered victims of communism is a great way to compensate for his shortcomings, Chris.

But I fail to see why you need to get so worked up over that - surely you've spent enough time on Poly to be able to scan a troll at a mile's distance by now?

	06-07-2002 01:30									#157
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I know it perfectly well moom, it's a waste of time dealing with some, but every now and then, you reach someone who is worth talking to.

These nubes don't get it. Marky is just trying for a reaction, but he isn't a bad guy, but some of these kids, they just want to strike at something, and the USA is a convienent target for it.

I don't mind people saying the Us is wrong when it is, but to hear this crap everyday is pedantic, as 99% of the poly attacks are totally groundless, is annoying.

I also don't like being called a flag waver, I will never mindlessly follow anything, yet some newbie did just that here.
Some people might not have cared for the way i answered that, but they need to think about why it didn't bother them that someone else made a baseless accusation and used my name as part of it.

I'm always there to stand up for myself, because when you think about it, all is pointless here.

	06-07-2002 01:39									#158
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You're too easily provoke Chris. Way too easy. Makes you a prime target for the trolls.

	06-07-2002 01:50									#159
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quote: Forget it, your not making the connection.

i see the connection that you make, i just don't agree with.

	06-07-2002 02:03									#160
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quote: You play a little game, called "assume he's a super-patriot" and work your answers from there. Try a true debate, with facts, if you even understand the word.

Indeed, I find a lot of people just argue against what they think the other person is saying. Make an assumption about a persons' view, if they believe X then they must also believe Y, and argue from there. That is one of the most annoying things about trying to get a real debate on a subject that can turn hot.

The other annoyance being people think you are trolling when asking basic questions about peoples assumptions.

No matter how lowly you rate anothers' opinions there is no need to get abusive or name calling, it suggests you are losing the debate to the casual observer, even if you are wiping the floor with them on real facts. - Exceptions being the really witty, like Laz.

	06-07-2002 02:12									#161
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quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 Thought you wern't listening Mark. Yes, I am, and there is nothing wrong with that. You play a little game, called "assume he's a super-patriot" and work your answers from there. Try a true debate, with facts, if you even understand the word. And while were on the case of stup[idity, do you know that little device you so proudly display as an avatar was the symbol of a regime that oppressed it's people horribly, murdered them at will, imprisioned them for even daring to hope for freedom? You couldn't have picked a more childish way to represent yourself then to use the hammer and sikle in a red star. I guess all those dead don't mean much to you, do they? And you wonder why I hold you in contempt. That's as cute as jokes about jews in ovens.

Getting a little irritable are we? I know what perverted purposes the hammer and sickle has been used for. But that´s beside the point since they weren´t originally used for this. And I could have picked a much more childish way to represent myself. But using this as an avatar is not allowed.

EDIT: Image deleted to celebrate the new age of peace and understanding at Poly

	06-07-2002 02:18									#162
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quote: Originally posted by moominparatrooper KX is a spoiled middle-class brat who can't face up to the fact that the welfare state won't do for him as it did for his parents, and who thinks pissing on the hundereds of millions of murdered victims of communism is a great way to compensate for his shortcomings, Chris. But I fail to see why you need to get so worked up over that - surely you've spent enough time on Poly to be able to scan a troll at a mile's distance by now?

Moomin ain´t it hard to type with your tongue so far up Chris´ass?

	06-07-2002 02:25									#163
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Hmmm ... after reading through this thread, I see that people have forgotten that personal insults are not allowed...

To the Anti-American Crowd... yeah, the USA sucks... fine, your opinion. But stop your personal insults.

To the Pro-American Crowd... yeah, they are all trolls, your opinion... fine. But stop the personal insults.

I think I will start handing out restrictions with NO WARNINGS in the future until EVERYBODY is reminded that we do have rules here against personal insults.

	06-07-2002 02:38									#164
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Fair enough... Entering 'CHILL' mode.

	06-07-2002 08:53									#165
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus You're too easily provoke Chris. Way too easy. Makes you a prime target for the trolls.

You have to keep in mind Marky, some things are far more personal to me then other things.

I have seen terror attacks up close, I have seen real Soviets, and been shot at by both real commies and fanatics who run around shouting "Allah akbar".
And even after all that, I refuse to make blanket statements like kill the towelheads/cameljockies/russianbastards/ect.

Never have and never will.

Remember how you felt when they had that shooting by your school?
If I was petty, I could have made attacks and made you feel bad, but that is both childish and pointless, and I hope, that you will stop that (your better then you were, that's for sure).

I can also say I never seek out people to attack, I endlessly defend the USA from silliness.
If you really want to knock America, you should talk about the real problems here, like heath care (non-exsistant UNLESS you can afford it or have a job with the right insureance), a public school system that is a running joke, corporate corpution that is running rampant, these are real US problems.
Things like the ICC are basically unimportant, in truth, there is little chance of Americans ever agreeing to foriegners trying her citizens, no matter what the current government, such a measure would NEVER pass certain areas of Congress.
Also, to think that Bush does whatever he wants is laughable, both Congress and the Senate firmly stop him from ruling by decree (the last president to get away with this was Lydon Johnson, and the result was the Vietnam disaster).

I know you like the crazy headline Marky, and the bombastic posts, but most of the US posters only get annoyed with this.

As for you, "Komrad", do a little study work into the Soviets, and see if you still think Communism is such a hot idea and if that avatar is so cute.

If people would talk TO me instead of at me, it would go smoother, some people (like the guy I blasted) saw the thirteen star flag and my name and said "flag/poster=Flagwaving nut", without reading the posts that I have made over the time I have been here.

I know a lot about history, simply because I enjoy it immensly, and I prefer European history (which is what my degree is in) because it's fascinating to me.
To hear laymen tell me I'm wrong or crazy is insulting, I'm not saying I'm the be-all, end-all of facts, but I can back up any historical argument I make with source material and facts, not perceptions and images.
All three major allies won WWII together, to say the Russians didn't need the west (As Rogan did) is both an insult and a diservice to the men who fought and died in the western forces, as well as being historically inaccurate.

I neither want nor expect thanks from Europe for WWII or after, uncounted Europeans fought side by side with the USA from that time foward till today.

It is, however, quite obnoxious to read the rather foolish things said the US's way, especially reguarding the cold war, a war the WEST won, at great sacrifice.
The US bled and lost on some battlefields in that war (like Vietnam, which is all that war really was, the USA had no real interest there except to keep the Russians out), drew stalemates in others (like Korea) and won some (like Afghanistan vs the Soviets).

I was witness to some of that, I remember the no-nukes movement in Germany (which some of you are too young to recall), the ups and downs from the late 60s till today, to say anything fondly of the Soviets is laughable, all one need to do is recall the Prague summer of 68, read about Budapest in 56, read about Poland in 81, the Berlin wall in 61, the list is endless.

The USA has done it share of wrong doing, no American denies it, but we do a lot of good also, and we are proud of our nation, and that isn't going to change.

	06-07-2002 14:07									#166
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quote: As for you, "Komrad", do a little study work into the Soviets, and see if you still think Communism is such a hot idea and if that avatar is so cute.

Just that the Soviets where communists, doesn't mean that every communist has to be a Soviet, or agrees with their ways.

	06-07-2002 14:11									#167
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quote: Originally posted by Lemmy Just that the Soviets where communists, doesn't mean that every communist has to be a Soviet, or agrees with their ways.

And only one nation used a hammer and sickle in a red star.

Now, which one was that?

	06-07-2002 14:14									#168
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How about Mao?

Sorry, no favorite of Marx has ever got it right. Or can you point to the messiah?

	06-07-2002 14:22									#169
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and who says a communist regime has to be like any of the failed ones?

There are gentler ways of doing things, you're right, there where no succesfull communist countries, most of them were ruled by madmen, not persons who really care about their people.

Chris, i'm not talking about the symbol, i'm talking about the comparison you're making, Soviets = Communism = Soviets.

	06-07-2002 14:23									#170
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20 or 30 million citizens dead... strike 30 million, you're out!

	06-07-2002 14:25									#171
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do you really think a prerequisite for communism is the death of millions of civilians?

	06-07-2002 14:27									#172
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It's been the record.

	06-07-2002 14:28									#173
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but do you think it?

	06-07-2002 14:35									#174
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quote: Originally posted by Lemmy do you really think a prerequisite for communism is the death of millions of civilians?

Lenin thought so.

He wrote of the strategy of terror as a way to control the masses.

Mao also believed in this, and Stalin killed through his paranoia.

In fact, as has been said, there has yet to be a benevolent Communist state, and I believe that the concept is flawed, the world that Marx and Engels invisioned never arose.

No communist state has ever allowed a free press, freedom of expression, or allowed any idea into it's midst.

Hard to understand why people still find this appealing, the concept that your work is not your own and the state is all is alien to me.

	06-07-2002 14:36									#175
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Yes. I have to judge on the record.

Communists are in a hurry to get things done. They are not very tolerant of those who get in their way. They waste a lot of their own people in the process. Waste means 'dead' in too many cases.

How about this? If your ideas have such historical significance behind them... win a fair vote in a mature democracy... It's never happened.

The Marxists simply lurk in the background, waiting for the opportunity to impose their view of history by the bayonet.

Sorry. Despite some of the high ideals that Marx represents (not alone BTW) that is what has happened in his name.

	06-07-2002 14:38									#176
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quote: Originally posted by Lemmy but do you think it?

Are all communists evil and out to kill millions of people. No

Has communism produced a country that has not ended up as mearly another dictatorship? Why don't you answer that one.

	06-07-2002 14:43									#177
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*sigh*

quote: Originally posted by Lemmy There are gentler ways of doing things, you're right, there were no succesfull communist countries, most of them were ruled by madmen, not persons who really care about their people.

	06-07-2002 14:45									#178
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Lemmy, what do you want us to judge your views on, if not the record?

	06-07-2002 14:49									#179
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the theories, but i must add, i don't fully support communism, or capitalism fpr that matter, i just wanted to point out that not all communists do it, or want to do it the Soviet way.

	06-07-2002 14:53									#180
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Good point. And I must point out that I don't know many 'pure' capitalists. None at all in fact IRL.

Most agree that government has some place in governing things.

The interesting bit is that Marx had his effect, even if it wasn't what he envisioned.