02-01-2003 23:30									#241
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quote: Originally posted by BRC I think that the Ottomans would be just as effective as the Germans, due to Industrious vs. Militaristic.

Actually, my point is that the Ottomans would perhaps be too effective, too early. Personally, I want to see planes, Radar Towers, Helicopters, Infantry, Artillery and Tanks in this game, not Cavalry. Sipahi are strong enough that I would be tempted to mass produce them, swtich to Communism and to a fair bit of conquering in the early Industrial.


Dominae

	03-01-2003 00:58									#242
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I sort of feel that much of the game will be decided before Military is useful, as well, but since I've never played the Germans, I'm willing to have a go at them.

At least I wouldn't have to worry about them rushing me.

Personally, I think with the early game being so important - since we're not acquiring territory via military means - I'd vote for Expansionist, but we did that already.

	03-01-2003 02:14									#243
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Just to clarify -
The reason I say Expansionist is, if we cannot invade, conquer or prune our neighbors, we have to out-REX them since we have to be relatively peaceful for 2 full Ages.
Starting with Granaries would be a big boon as would the guarantee of good stuff from the goody huts.

However, since we did Expansionist in the last AU game, it might be better to just ensure the Civ we play has at least one good early-game trait, or make sure that the deck is stacked in our favor as far as available territory goes.

I'm sure 2 (long) Expansionist games in a row would get a bit stale.

	03-01-2003 02:31									#244
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ducki, I want this particular scenario to be difficult. Ideally, I would like to see a "Communism comeback" by the human player. If the human player is already dominant due to some very successful REXing, the purpose of the scenario will be thwarted. Maybe we'll even see a Killer AI or two, which would make for some pretty epic battles.

This said, I have nothing against a Expansionist civ because "abusive" REXing depends chiefly on the map and starting location. Come to think of it, Communist Americans would actually be pretty funny!




Dominae

	03-01-2003 02:44									#245
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Dom: Are you suggesting that we have no wars until Communism?? Or just no offensive wars?? This is going to need to be thoroughly explained for me. Sorry. Thanks.

	03-01-2003 02:57									#246
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quote: Originally posted by BRC Dom: Are you suggesting that we have no wars until Communism?? Or just no offensive wars?? This is going to need to be thoroughly explained for me. Sorry. Thanks.

I would define 'offensive war' as entering or bombarding another civ's territory with military units. So, you could declare war all you want, but you could never capture any cities or do any "conquest-type" damage.


Dominae

	03-01-2003 02:59									#247
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I would classify “offensive warfare” as the following: any war initiated by your civ, and any war that spills over into enemy territory. This would cause some problems, as you would nearly need to wait until the opposing civ runs out of offensive units to call for peace…but it would be a welcome challenge, IMHO.

Somebody, please let me know if I’m incorrect.

	03-01-2003 04:53									#248
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I'm all for challenging, but if Communism is tough to begin with...

... anyway, I just wanted to make sure we were clear on the plan.

I'll try anything. Even the Center-of-a-Black-Hole Side.

	03-01-2003 05:25									#249
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So I guess we're just waiting on Theseus to finish 202.

alexman, when do you want to start this game, and who should set it up? Is the newest version of the AU mod available yet?


Dominae

	03-01-2003 05:49									#250
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AU mod 1.14 is up. Unless anyone has any objections to the recent changes, we should use that version for the next game. If anyone has time to play a test game with 1.14, or at least go over the recent changes in the editor just in case I screwed up, it would be a big help.

As far as setting it up is concerned, I would like to play this next game without knowing the map. It's been a while since I did that! Do we have any volunteers who don't plan to play the game (or who don't care if they know the map)? I usually use the editor to generate a map with our predetermined settings, find one I like for the current scenario, slightly modify it if necessary to make for a better game, and then set the civs' starting locations. If nobody wants to do that, I'll set it up again.

	03-01-2003 06:10									#251
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If no one volunteers in the next two or so days, I'll gladly do it, alexman. I will try to do as you did with 202 and try to forget the map after a couple of weeks.


Dominae

	03-01-2003 09:18									#252
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I can give it a shot tomorrow before 2:00. Will you tell me the civ that we are using, and the different forms of mods that we need? Thanks.

	03-01-2003 10:13									#253
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Thanks BRC!

Let's go with Germany.
We need three versions: 1.29f, 1.14f, and AU mod.

As for the settings, does anyone have suggestions? I would say that you should pick your own settings without telling us, but keep in mind these random facts: Communism is best for an empire that has no room for a good FP placement, or when other governments would give lots of distance corruption but not very much corruption due to number of cities. Also, killer AI's need some initial room to expand and some weak neighbors to kill.

	03-01-2003 10:18									#254
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I'll post any questions tomorrow, if I have them. Just check in periodically if you can. Thanks.

	03-01-2003 10:57									#255
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BRC, you also want to provide a scenario description, describing the exact "rules" of this course. The key points are:

1. No offensive aggression unless the current government is Communism.

2. The only two victory types are Conquest and Domination.

3. Bonus marks/points will be awarded to those who best make use of Communism.

If no one objects, I wouldn't mind posting a more complete description of the game in the AU-203 thread once BRC is done with generating the scenario. Basically this is just to collect all the FAQs that we've discussed in the past few days. BRC you'll probably need to send me the files in this case, so that I can post everything in one neat package.

Oh, and thanks for volunteering (I want to play this game!).


Dominae

	03-01-2003 13:16									#256
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Ok, I got a question.

I have created the scenario in Civ3xEdit. I have it saved as a bix file, but I need to be able to get the map and all the rules to save as bic. I can't figure it out. Thanks.

	03-01-2003 19:00									#257
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Ahh! My fault, I should have told you this before, sorry.
You needed to create the scenario with the Civ3 editor, not the PTW editor. You can convert bic files to bix files by loading them from Civ3xEdit, but not the other way around, AFAIK...

	03-01-2003 20:37									#258
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It's ok. Give me a little longer.

	03-01-2003 20:47									#259
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Cool, take your time. Take even a few days if you like. Getting it right is much more important than getting it done fast.

One other thing that might go wrong: make sure that all civs are in the same locations for all versions. To do that it's not enough to assign civs to players, you have to assign starting locations as well.

	03-01-2003 21:30									#260
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Don't worry Alexman. I'm getting ready to do some debugging. This is a lot of work. I do need the new AU mods, and the originial 1.29 mod. Mine might be a little corrupted, and I don't want to go back and check every little thing. I should have it all together tonight.

	04-01-2003 00:01									#261
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I just had a thought about this AU Scenario.

What about captured cities?
Can we retake cities the AI conquers from us pre-Communism, or must we wait until Communism?

This is the only major question I can think of that we haven't answered yet.


P.S. BRC, thanks for taking the time to set this up! You too, alexman, for all the work maintaining the Mod(s)!

	04-01-2003 00:18									#262
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Personally, I'd say that this would be the exception to the "no combat inside enemy borders" rule. Reclaiming a city that was once yours seems reasonable...you'd be freeing your people, after all.

But I'm but a mere Settler here, hehe. What the heck do I know?

	04-01-2003 00:29									#263
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quote: What about captured cities? Can we retake cities the AI conquers from us pre-Communism, or must we wait until Communism?

Just from testing, I think this game is going to be pretty hard. Without being able to do any conquering, I would suggest that any city that you found be open for recapture. Otherwise, you could be in some serious trouble.

	04-01-2003 02:13									#264
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Once they capture your cities, they fall under their borders, not yours, so they are not open for re-capture. Sure, this makes things a bit harder, which is why this will be predominantely a defensive game (diplomatic or militaristic), until the final climax.


Dominae

	04-01-2003 02:16									#265
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There's the clarification. Good luck guys.

	04-01-2003 02:25									#266
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I doubt this will be as hard as we're all afraid it will be, just different. I really want to newer players to try something new, and give more experienced players a challenge. Personally, I'm not happy reading AARs that state that the "game is over at this point" before the Medieval age is even half over.

BRC, I offered to do the write-up for the AU 203 post yesterday; would you like to do it instead? Either way is fine with me, I was just trying to give you less work (getting things right does take a while...). Let me know.


Dominae

	04-01-2003 02:31									#267
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One bonus to playing Germany, at least we can have Spearmen from the start, hopefully preventing losing any cities very early.

I'm excited about this one, it sounds fun, though I may have to go back and convert one of the 1.29 scenarios to PtW and try out my newly found warmongering skills.

	04-01-2003 02:40									#268
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Hum, Greece would be even better for avoiding losing cities early on. (Hoplites from turn 1)

Especally if you happen to get the Celts, Irq, Persians, or Romans as a neighbor.

	04-01-2003 02:54									#269
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Dom: If you WANT to do the write up you can, but I wouldn't mind finishing it myself. I have your notes on what you wanted included, but if there's anything else, just go ahead and let me know. I really think that I will have this thing ready in a few hours.

	04-01-2003 03:01									#270
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Ok, go ahead BRC. This is going to be fun!


Dominae