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Havak
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Swing Low, Sweet Chariots.
Aug 1999
time: 05:20
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I thought the barbarians were those that are releasing an animal in the middle of a crowded rugby stadium. |
The Aussie rugby dictionary defines Barbarian as “those nations and nationalities who dare to beat the Wallabies – for they must necessary be uncivilised cheats to do so” 
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Hundred years of selective breeding can have some bad after-effects. |
This is very true – just ask the Welsh.
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I know nothing of their habits in the matter. |
Aussie rugger crowds, in my limited experience, are unique. I thought Tigers corwds were unimaginative with the dirge “Tiiigggeeerrsss”, but after the thousandth time “Go Wallabies” makes one feel somewhat homicidal.
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I used to be a very gentle soul, incapable of a bad word about anyone |
I’m not buying today.
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Until I came upon your mistreatment of Celts |
It’s all in jest. What we need is a celtic fan to post and then you will get a feel for the Anglo-celt rugby relationship from the other point of view.
Of course they would have to learn English first.
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You're here for business reasons. |
In actual fact I’m scouting for transfer targets – and yourself and Caligastia have been very helpful in that regard – Jack, Robertson, Lyons, Larkham – we want the lot. 
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I did hear that. I think it was Poido. |
I thought it was great. We had just seen a cracking bit of rugby and instead of praising that he went of on a small uber-patriot rant that, amongst other things, picked yet again at the scab of the lost Lions test at the Gabba. I did laugh.
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but he really had no choice |
I understand the importance of the bonus point. It was a brave call all right. It’s not the kind of thing I can see him doing against us in November where BPs don’t factor. Of course you should be more than 7 down by the 80th minute anyway (Justin will have been red carded over an hour ago by then).
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Still, it's their choice. |
And that’s the key. The ‘combative’ style has totally failed them for three years or so and they still persist with it. What is that cliché – adapt or perish?
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Just as long as it's the -sh of finish and not the f-. |
Absolutely – it helps our club scene to have the class veterans here bringing our youngsters on. Youngsters should stay and try for the green and gold – no problem there at all.
Some former SANZAR talent has done really well here – Kronfeld, Stransky, Ian Jones for starters – but some made poor club choices and arrived with knackered bodies and have just creamed cash for no real return – Little, Wilson (sadly as we expected much from him) and Foley for example. I’m keen to see us only sign players who contribute something to our game. Naturally there are no doubts about Larkham on that one.
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Presumably he can sing better than he writes. |
Without a doubt – they learn to sing before they learn to write after all.
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"sports writing of a high order". |
Wow – I must read it. Not only does he ghost write Austin, he is also a good friend of the Lip. If he has transcended that to be ‘fair’ (by which I am assuming the Aussie version of his book has been altered to say the Wallabies are the best team ever?) I have to read it!
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They like the French style. |
Wonder how they will treat the Poms? One Aussie e-mailed Planet Rugby after the violence last Saturday saying how much he was looking forward to seeing RSA play the Poms with that ‘physical’ style. You guys really love us don’t you?
The yellow card from a citing was actually the prop Rautenbach (the guy who got pummelled by Paul and Harrison so some justice for you at least?)
How about this for an understatement though - Harrison said that he realised that needed to control his temper in future. Well, um, yeah.
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As I said, the ABs should probably - technically - start favourites |
Home advantage is the only thing that makes this marginal for me.
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Nuh. Wring its neck, jam it under his coat, take it home and slam it on the barby. |
That does sound more Australian.
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Spare me. Per-leeeeeeeeze! |
Okay you got me – it’s the opposition that sings along. The Aussies just sit there waiting for the chance to use their Bundaberg ‘Try’ cards.
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Havak
The Aussie rugby dictionary defines Barbarian as “those nations and nationalities who dare to beat the Wallabies – for they must necessary be uncivilised cheats to do so” |
Our rugby dictionary defines Barbarian as "an excuse to throw the ball around, have fun and sink some p*ss".
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Of course they would have to learn English first. |
Tamerlin and LDiCesares could show them the ropes.
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In actual fact I’m scouting for transfer targets – and yourself and Caligastia have been very helpful in that regard – Jack, Robertson, Lyons, Larkham – we want the lot. |
I sent you Michael Foley! Jeez, you're hard to please!
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I understand the importance of the bonus point. It was a brave call all right. It’s not the kind of thing I can see him doing against us in November where BPs don’t factor. |
Why would you do it if you don't need to?
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Of course you should be more than 7 down by the 80th minute anyway (Justin will have been red carded over an hour ago by then). |
Of course Jonno wouldn't have started the match, having been suspended for 3 months the week before.
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And that’s the key. The ‘combative’ style has totally failed them for three years or so and they still persist with it. What is that cliché – adapt or perish? |
Where are you Mickeyj?
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Some former SANZAR talent has done really well here – Kronfeld, Stransky, Ian Jones for starters – but some made poor club choices and arrived with knackered bodies and have just creamed cash for no real return – Little, Wilson (sadly as we expected much from him) and Foley for example. |
Jason Little was injured over there, wasn't he? A couple of times? I assume you mean David Wilson? I thought he left here in fairly healthy condition. Very gutsy player he is. Or was.
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Wonder how they will treat the Poms? One Aussie e-mailed Planet Rugby after the violence last Saturday saying how much he was looking forward to seeing RSA play the Poms with that ‘physical’ style. You guys really love us don’t you? |
You're the old enemy, you can't expect much. Whatever the sport, the Poms are always the old enemy. It couldn't be any other way. Actually, it's got little to do with sport. It's the old colonial chip-on-the-shoulder thing. I wish they'd grow out of it.
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The yellow card from a citing was actually the prop Rautenbach (the guy who got pummelled by Paul and Harrison so some justice for you at least?) |
Oh, okay. I thought he might have been the unnamed kicker. I've still got the tape of the match. I'll have a look at it later.
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How about this for an understatement though - Harrison said that he realised that needed to control his temper in future. Well, um, yeah. |
Typical dry Australian. Gotta love it.
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Home advantage is the only thing that makes this marginal for me. |
I think LDiCesares' quote of 3 points start for the Wallabies is a fair assessment.
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That does sound more Australian. |
Oh! I forgot to add ... he'd probably root it on the way home, too.
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Okay you got me – it’s the opposition that sings along. The Aussies just sit there waiting for the chance to use their Bundaberg ‘Try’ cards. |
No! You misunderstand me. It's the Australians who sing along. Cheap, puerile nationalism.
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ravagon
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Australia
Sep 1999
time: 13:20
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Seen it before but it makes still makes an interesting read a second time around. One of my favourite bits ...
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But the other category paid fulsome tribute to the warmth of the welcome afforded to outsiders by the people of Japan and Korea. By all accounts, this was unconditional, remarkable and genuine. The hosts were genuinely interested in their visitors and memorably, most decided to support a second team in the tournament as well as their own. There was the sight of thousands of Japanese and Koreans decked out in the colours of Brazil, England, and even of the dear old Germans. |
I can just see Aussie crowds kitted out in AB, RSA and UK football jerseys, waving their arms around and cheering those respective teams ... only to begin running for cover as the flying pigs begin strafing the arena. 
Slightly different situation mind you. The Japs/ROKs are relative minnows in soccer and never expected their teams to do nearly as well as they did. Oz OTOH (although still rather thin, darty and silvery next to NZ  ) is not in quite the same position.
Judging from Havaks post on page [goodness knows what] though, foreign teams don't and won't, leave this place with the same sentiment expressed by many of the teams competing in Kor/Japan WC2002.
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Havak
Bizarre player – languishing in obscurity in a Scottish provincial team. Never IMO the stuff ABs captains should be made of. |
Is that where he finished up? Scotland? I did wonder where he'd got to. Briefly, at some stage, I recall. He did seem a bit of a captaincy aberration. Got it - apart from a shortage of good candidates - because he was considered a good S12 skipper, I recall.
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I saw him play some very good games for Bristol – and I saw him play some very anonymous ones too. I don’t think he was happy here – England in winter is not for everyone (not even for me a lot of the time). |
No, I gather he found your winter a bit of a problem. Pity. It was hard to assess his form - and the extent of his future - when he left here. His last season - with the Waratahs, after leaving Queensland - was only average. But that was the season - or one of the many seasons - of massive discord within the NSW camp. All very poisonous. No one played consistently well, as can happen when off-field dramas get in the way.
(I, OTOH, love a good Pommy winter. And have enjoyed several. I don't even mind the 4 1/2 hours of daylight! Must be my perverse nature. I'd love to travel between the hemispheres twice a year avoiding summer altogether. Another reason why I don't fit in here)
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He would have been happier at *spit* Bath even I think. |
I notice M. Foley - he's at Bath, isn't he? - has recruited another couple of Australians onto his coaching and back-up staff. Our 7s skipper, nearing retirement, is one of them.
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Generally far more well intentioned than most colonial powers though. |
Pretty much, I guess. Put it this way - if the Dutch had got their mitts on us first, I'd be discussing hockey, tulips and cheese with red plastic wrapped around it instead of rugby. 
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Actually I could debate the pros and cons of the empire with you but Caligastia wouldn’t like it for sure – living in the rebel colonies as he does. |
I hope you noticed his declaration that this ain't a democracy. And my thought about an armed coup. I'm already stockpiling.
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I think the Australians are also unique in the way they define themselves through sport. It doesn’t mean anywhere near no much to the national identity here I think it’s fair to say. |
It's because the average Australian is narrow-minded, devoid of imagination and anti-intellectual. Heartily encouraged by our current racist, fascist government. (Publish and be damned!, is what I say to Caligastia!) Anything remotely cerebral embarrasses the average Australian. It's beyond them that there are myriad means of defining a nation. Sport, for them, is very simple and straightforward - you either win or lose.
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I found it very interesting to see you applaud Mitchell introducing competition for the shirt. |
Why?
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I wonder if you know where he picked that concept up from? |
Surprise me.
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I do acknowledge that the tour I was on was stupidly marketed by both sides with silly racist undertones. |
That, I think, is the bottom line to the whole Lions experience. I know we're going over really old ground - even if our thread newcomers missed it last time, which they should probably count as a blessing - but, in this country, there's a habit of marketing to the Lowest Common Denominator.
I'm sure it happens in a lot of countries, but, unfortunately, our LCD is somewhere beneath sewer level. International One Day Cricket here - day/night, that is - is somewhere you wouldn't want to take your family. Drunken yobbos. Thanks to marketing. When rugby follows the same marketing strategy, they will end up with the same result. It gives me the sh*ts. Hugely. It would explain the problems Havak and his chums ran into last time.
The WRC, though, isn't a Lions tour. Or even an All Blacks tour. (And I still stand by my assertion that the Australian crowd applauded both teams after that extraordinary Wallabies-ABs test at Australia Stadium last year. Won by the ABs) For starters, the IRB - or the WRC arm of it - will be calling a lot of the marketing shots. And the ARU, keen to see a fiscal return, will be promoting it across the board - every team, every match. It won't be a one-off War promotion. It simply can't be.
What's more, the bottom line is pretty simple. If any of the Australian crowds make arses of themselves, I'm out of here. It'll be just the excuse I need!
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I will watch RWC carefully however to look for jingoistic nonsense. |
It depends what you mean by jingoistic nonsense.
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I do struggle to accept the Aussie fans will be generous in applauding any team they think capable of beating them? |
They will. Right up until the time they meet.
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Shall we see if the Wallaby fans are so generous en masse to the ABs on Saturday? |
It will depend on how many of our LCD are in the crowd. There wouldn't have been too many in the crowd last time that applauded both teams.
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You’ll note I limited this to my own thoughts not those of Jones – I have no problem with Finbar ripping that guy apart (verbally of course). |
At least you know how to use the word "fulsome"!
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30-07-2002 06:21
God, that was embarrassing.
I’m quite happy with that. What do the other guys reckon?
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