16-07-2002 09:13									#211
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quote: problem with that is it isnt confidential.. i know I value my privacy, dunno bout you.

I said thats the only reason I could see not to do it aside from a tad bit of extra work

And I do value my privacy irl, but on here I could care less Id rather have to publically vote than not have my vote counted because someone started screaming double logins anyways.


In any case if we wanted to, we could do it exactly how its done and rl and require registration to vote with the election commission, and then submit votes privately to them for them to count and put up. There's two problems with that though:
1) We have to trust the election commission. Which isn't a huge problem, I think we have enough honest people playing this game to come up with a few people who won't be playing with chads so to speak.
2) It makes it more of a pain for people to vote, since people would have to PM or email the election commission.

Edit:
But don't get me wrong, I think the _best_ system for a game where it doesnt really matter that much who wins or loses, is what we've been doing so long as we can just live with and trust the results But if we are going to go down the road of not trusting each other, then the other solution is signing up to vote in some manner.

	16-07-2002 09:18									#212
	Increase Your PM Length

Hmmm. wervdon has one possible workable scenario. In fact, the voter list should be the citizen list as of the day before debate begins. None could be disenfranchised in that case.

In that case, Mark and or Ming could always catch a barrel full of DLs if someone tried to pull a stunt. Since it would involve posting (and IP tracking of posts is definitely within their capability.

A varient on this would be to PM election officials with your votes. 1 PM per election with your votes for all offices. That would address Ninot's privacy concerns. If an election were challenged, then the election official(s) could invite the court to enquire from certain citizens whom they voted for and check this against the election tally of whom voted for whom.

Uber had another suggestion. A private site could run a script to record who voted for who. That site would need a log in, you would be required to have the same user name as in the member thread. 1 or more scrutineers could have access to the log. We will very likely have a site very soon, so this would be possible too.

I am not sure which way to go, but something other than the unviewable, public polls will have to be enacted, very soon. That process should also be used for any laws passed.

	16-07-2002 09:18									#213
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Its a good idea, and it can be brought up to debate under the next administration. But I still think the best solution is a judicial branch.

Kman

	16-07-2002 09:41									#214
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All the judges in the world cannot overcome hidden, publically accessible polls.

	16-07-2002 09:43									#215
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SUPER Judges could...

	16-07-2002 09:44									#216
	Full PM-box? Change here!

This decision is by no means final. Trip is correct that there is no law stating it cannot be done, but there is not law stating it can.

This is a democracy, and the people decide all matters here. I am creating an opinion poll so we may ascertain the general people's approval of this decision.

If 51-67% of the people disagree with this dicision, then I strongly suggest these two candidates seriously reconsider.

If most people agree with having two Presidents, and their votes ignored, then this action will pass, and we will have two Presidents once both polls (this one and the opinion poll) are closed.

	16-07-2002 09:46									#217
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In all seriousness I was refering to judges as to handle the situation with Ninot andTrip declaring they will share the presidency. My fault, I mest up writing that post, probably my momentary dislexia/retardation kicking in...

	16-07-2002 09:48									#218
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Timeline This decision is by no means final. Trip is correct that there is no law stating it cannot be done, but there is not law stating it can. This is a democracy, and the people decide all matters here. I am creating an opinion poll so we may ascertain the general people's approval of this decision. If 51-67% of the people disagree with this dicision, then I strongly suggest these two candidates seriously reconsider. If most people agree with having two Presidents, and their votes ignored, then this action will pass, and we will have two Presidents once both polls (this one and the opinion poll) are closed.

Thats a good idea, I guess as long as this poll is open, opening an opinion poll would not slow the process down any.

	16-07-2002 10:02									#219
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To Ninot and Trip: Have you decided exactly how you would divide up responsibilities? Would the outcome of the election affect this, or would you treat it as invalid and disregard it when delegating the president's tasks to each other?

	16-07-2002 10:07									#220
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep To Ninot and Trip: Have you decided exactly how you would divide up responsibilities? Would the outcome of the election affect this, or would you treat it as invalid and disregard it when delegating the president's tasks to each other?

in the theme and spirit of this election, we have not decided anything!

we'll probably just divide the duties as to when they need to be done and who is better to do them.

	16-07-2002 10:17									#221
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To Ninot and Trip:
Would you abide by the outcome of Timeline's poll. In otherwords, if it is clear most of the citizens don't want yall to share power and instead go by the outcome of the election poll, would you? Or would you just disregard this. There is definately nothing that would make you abide by it, but it is democratic.

Kman

	16-07-2002 10:20									#222
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quote: Originally posted by Ninot we'll probably just divide the duties as to when they need to be done and who is better to do them.

Do you mean that you will treat the election poll as invalid (by deciding such delegation at your own discretions), or that the two of you need time to decide on things like my questions?

	16-07-2002 10:24									#223
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im not quite sure Kloreep.. im only half a brain to this presidency right now...

IF we stay as a co-presidency, we would ignore the poll i guess

but we dont exactly know how to split the duties.

	16-07-2002 10:25									#224
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quote: Originally posted by Kramerman To Ninot and Trip: Would you abide by the outcome of Timeline's poll. In otherwords, if it is clear most of the citizens don't want yall to share power and instead go by the outcome of the election poll, would you? Or would you just disregard this. There is definately nothing that would make you abide by it, but it is democratic. Kman

i dont think we can officially answer this yet

but a reasonable unofficial answer is "we will do the people's will, if it be reasonable"

	16-07-2002 10:35									#225
	Suffering from ads?

That a ****ing terrible answer. That could be translated to we will do the peoples will if they agree with us.

	16-07-2002 10:36									#226
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep Do you mean that you will treat the election poll as invalid (by deciding such delegation at your own discretions), or that the two of you need time to decide on things like my questions?

They are basically declaring this poll invalid and saying they will both take power- which is something I thought only Trip would do

But then again, this was Trip's idea, Ninot is just agreeing with it, for now.

	16-07-2002 10:38									#227
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VIVA LA REVOLUCION!

	16-07-2002 10:45									#228
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I think this is the perfect place for me to point out that this is my
500th post!

	16-07-2002 10:50									#229
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And this also might be a good place for me to put up my 1,915th Post.

	16-07-2002 10:59									#230
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Goodnight Apolytonia, I'l be interseted in how things turn out tomarrow afternoon when I check back.

EDIT: 220 post , so small compared to you guys...

	16-07-2002 14:18									#231
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AAaargh!!! The election will close today and Ninot's only one vote (0.80 %) ahead! Now this is a close race indeed!!

Oh, and by the way, this is my 545th post if anybody wants to know...

	16-07-2002 14:31									#232
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

So they are declaring the poll that gave them their power as invalid and co-hosting the presidency. We cannot simply evaluate this poll differently from all the others because we believe somebody voted that should not have. In theory this could have happened anywhere, hey maybe this is why Spiffor won by a landslide over the Banana.

	16-07-2002 15:08									#233
	Inflate your Upload Space

I guess it's time to call the governor of Florida...

	16-07-2002 15:58									#234
	Got spare money?

hehehehe...... You have proven youself to be a very tactless ***** by making fun of our current situation. Since I laughed at it, I can only guess at what it makes me.

	16-07-2002 16:06									#235
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"The election can't be broken. We just fixed it!"

By the way, Ninot's ahead by two votes now.

	16-07-2002 17:25									#236
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

out of 127 voters, 10 registered after the start of the poll. from that, no traces of DL were found, except from one account linked to one candidate but we currently think it's a friend or something like that. no IP match was found

what should be more disturbing is that only 95 of the voters have signed-up on official join thread

eitherway, there are no signs of someone fixing the vote. i'm now looking into a system connecting the democracy games registration process with voting

	16-07-2002 17:45									#237
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and it goes without saying that i have a full list of who voted for what that can be made public if the people decides so

	16-07-2002 17:56									#238
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I would be very interested to see the list and I assume that everyone else would be too. I don't think however that the public would approve or should they because an election is suppose to be anonymous. Maybe we should have an amendment that allows for poll results to be released.

	16-07-2002 18:06									#239
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Thanks MarkG.

If we do decide to take you up on your offer of the list, I suspect that it will be from our Judiciary when we get it set up. We do appreciate the offer.

As to the 32 who are not registered in the join thread, could you either PM them asking them to sign up or provide the list (names only) to one of us so as we may contact them.

Thank you for looking into this for us.

	16-07-2002 18:13									#240
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Any chance you could tell us what the vote is minus those who hadn't signed up for the game once the poll closes?

We probally can't/shouldn't eliminate their votes since to the best of my knowledge nothing expressely said you had to sign up to vote (in the constitution that is), but if the results with and without their votes are the same then there's no problem with this election at all. If on the other hand they did affect the outcome, well then I guess we are back to where we started trying to figure out a compromise solution