19-07-2002 22:41									#151
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Do you think it would be impossible, or simply unlikely, that the producers would handle episodes concerning the HIV victim with taste, empathy yet still making the viewer aware of how deadly a disease the muppet has?

	19-07-2002 22:56									#152
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Gibsie, to the extent they make it "gruesome," the less appropriate it is for kids.

	21-07-2002 01:15									#153
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quote: That's probably what would happen. SS would be booted off of PBS if people had that big of a problem with it. That's what you seem to be arguing against though.

Should SS move from PBS to, say, Fox Kids (or fill in any non-public broadcast station in the US) is the US governement still entitled to ban the show, for this sole reason?

	21-07-2002 08:58									#154
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Saint Marcus, I don't believe so. However, in the matter of kids, the Supreme's have allowed the FCC to regulate content to a higher degree. So if the subject matter was deemed inappropriate for kids and was banned from FOX, I believe the Supreme's would say this regulaton was permissible.

	21-07-2002 09:30									#155
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How are they going to show that the muppet has AIDS? "This is Bill, and he has AIDS." Are they going to leave it at that? Because the entire point of having an HIV-infected muppet is to increase awareness - to show the dangers, etc, they will have to show that muppet ravished by AIDs ,and die.

	21-07-2002 09:46									#156
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What's the difference between putting on crippled characters to promote acceptance of the physically disabled and HIV+ characters to promote acceptance of the infected?

	21-07-2002 09:55									#157
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Should SS move from PBS to, say, Fox Kids (or fill in any non-public broadcast station in the US) is the US governement still entitled to ban the show, for this sole reason?

absolutely not. This is an issue because PBS is subject to government oversight. Any other regulation would have to be in regard to legality.

	21-07-2002 09:57									#158
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger What's the difference between putting on crippled characters to promote acceptance of the physically disabled and HIV+ characters to promote acceptance of the infected?

very little in South Africa, which is why it's ok to do it there. Little kids in the RSA will certainly come into contact with and have to interact with both of those groups. Little kids in the U.S. will not.

	21-07-2002 09:59									#159
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The HIV infection rate in the US is 0.61% among adults aged 25-65. Probably a bit lower among children. What is the rate of gross physical debilitation among children?

	21-07-2002 10:03									#160
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger The HIV infection rate in the US is 0.61% among adults aged 25-65. Probably a bit lower among children. What is the rate of gross physical debilitation among children?

I'd suspect it's higher than the HIV infection rate of children 2-4. It's also much easier to hide an HIV infection from other kids in a class. Physical debilitations are nigh impossible to hide from other classmates.

	21-07-2002 10:15									#161
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Possibly, and I agree that a place like RSA has a much greater need to teach its children tolerance for the infected, but this shouldn't really be an issue for the politicians. It's excessive government moralising on an amoral subject (the last time I checked, children aren't usually to be held responsible for having contracted HIV).

	21-07-2002 10:23									#162
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Possibly, and I agree that a place like RSA has a much greater need to teach its children tolerance for the infected, but this shouldn't really be an issue for the politicians. It's excessive government moralising on an amoral subject (the last time I checked, children aren't usually to be held responsible for having contracted HIV).

I would agree with you if PBS were a privately funded company.

	21-07-2002 10:24									#163
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov HIV-positive anything frightens Republicans. They probably still think you can get it from a toilet seat.

what if a massive quantity of a HIV+ persons "bodily fluids" ends up on the toliet seat, and i have a huge gaping bleeding cut on my arse?

	21-07-2002 10:32									#164
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX what if a massive quantity of a HIV+ persons "bodily fluids" ends up on the toliet seat, and i have a huge gaping bleeding cut on my arse?

never sit on a toilet seat that is not your own if you have a bleeding arse

	21-07-2002 10:33									#165
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quote: Originally posted by NY Hoya I would agree with you if PBS were a privately funded company.

Even though PBS is publically funded, I don't see why anybody would object to a message of tolerance towards HIV-infected children. Most kids that age didn't get it by being junkies or having unprotected sex.

Besides which, it's ridiculous for the government to have such direct editorial control over even PBS. It isn't supposed to be the US equivalent of Pravda...

	21-07-2002 10:34									#166
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX what if a massive quantity of a HIV+ persons "bodily fluids" ends up on the toliet seat, and i have a huge gaping bleeding cut on my arse?

That's completely disgusting.

	21-07-2002 10:43									#167
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Even though PBS is publically funded, I don't see why anybody would object to a message of tolerance towards HIV-infected children. Most kids that age didn't get it by being junkies or having unprotected sex.

no, but there isn't a sizable enough population of little kids here with HIV to warrant subjecting our kids to it. Of course there are some kids that may have it, but there are also some kids who have abusive parents. Some issues are better left to those at an age who can deal with them. In the U.S., teaching kids about HIV at the ages 2-4 really won't do anything other than to trouble them.

quote: Originally posted by Frogger Besides which, it's ridiculous for the government to have such direct editorial control over even PBS. It isn't supposed to be the US equivalent of Pravda...

I think it's the government's job to ensure that the content that goes against the vast majority's wishes stays out of publicly funded broadcasts. This isn't about which party to vote for or what kind of lifestyles to accept. It's about the kind of content to which we want to subject our youngest kids.

	21-07-2002 21:15									#168
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quote: Originally posted by NY Hoya I'd suspect it's higher than the HIV infection rate of children 2-4. It's also much easier to hide an HIV infection from other kids in a class. Physical debilitations are nigh impossible to hide from other classmates.

Perhaps a show like this could teach kids that it's not someting they should be hiding or ashamed of.

	21-07-2002 21:51									#169
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I think that many people who dont have young children are unaware of the amount of information they have been exposed to by age 4 including the term "AIDS". In my experience with my own young children I was surprised when they were curious (but not scared) about what AIDS was. I'm not sure that this character will do any good, but I dont believe it will do any harm.

	22-07-2002 00:25									#170
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Well, I've read through this entire post. That in itself deserves a pat on the back.

I don't understand the thinking of people when they say "it's not a problem here so why worry about it?" To me, HIV and AIDS is a universal epidemic. It doesn't matter that the rate of infection may be lower in my country (Canada) than it is in other countries. That all goes out the window when innocent people are dying from this damn disease. I say show the program worldwide. Open the eyes of people who think they don't have a problem because AIDS isn't living next door to them. It is. You just aren't aware of it yet.

As for exposing HIV and AIDS to young children - hands up, how many people here actually have children? I do, although mine are older now. I did talk to them about HIV and AIDS when they were younger (yep in the age range being fought over), at about the age of four years. Kids are amazing creatures. They know more than you think they do. I say give them some background on the disease when they are younger and not only will it make them more aware of it but it may also promote love and care towards those who are unforunate enough to have contracted it.

Get a grip. AIDS is here and we need to educate our children about it any way we can be it through the home, the school or public television. The younger the better in my opinion.

	22-07-2002 01:53									#171
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Sesame Street is produced by the "Children's Television Workshop", a non - profit corporation that produces versions of Sesme Street for a variety of countries. It has produced a number of other shows, such as "the Electric Company", and "3-2-1", funds research on how media can be used to improve how children learn, and even owns an amusement park. It is not owned by PBS or any other government agency. Reading some of their mission staements it is apparent that when they produce shows to be bought by various countries they generally work with officials of the country in order to custom make the show to meet that country's needs.

My understanding is that the version being produced for South Africa will provide some information about how HIV is spread and how it can be avoided. The epidemic in South Africa has reached critical proportions. The only effective means of combatting this disease there is behavioral modification. Perhaps teaching good sexual hygenie at an early age has some hopes of effecting sufficient change among the population to stem the spread of the disease.

	22-07-2002 03:08									#172
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quote: Sesame Street is produced by the "Children's Television Workshop", a non - profit corporation that produces versions of Sesme Street for a variety of countries. It has produced a number of other shows, such as "the Electric Company", and "3-2-1", funds research on how media can be used to improve how children learn, and even owns an amusement park.

So what's the link with Jim Henson?

	22-07-2002 04:57									#173
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As far as I know, he was the creator of the Muppets. He died back in 1989 or 1990. Then his son took over, didn't he? That's about all I know about the guy.

	22-07-2002 18:30									#174
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see, i think this entire argument is kinda funny, and ridiculous. so is sean hannity, but he's funny sometimes.

it's not coming to the us; it's staying in safrica. doesn't concern us, so, why get your knickers in a twist?

by the same token, however, how exactly is this going to teach the little kids? forget about the innocence argument here. i mean, will three to six year olds truly understand the ramifications of an hiv-positive muppet? i don't think so. mainly because few people remember much from those time periods. and besides, even older kids, from seven to ten, who don't watch sesame street so much, will they get the message? trying to teach them tolerance, i dunno if it'll work. i think it's a flawed idea to begin with.

	22-07-2002 20:07									#175
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger What's the difference between putting on crippled characters to promote acceptance of the physically disabled and HIV+ characters to promote acceptance of the infected?

Because -- Republicans like to think that sexuality is still a tabboo in our society.

Even though unsafe sex is not the only way HIV/AIDS get transmitted.


So there you have it -- HIV programs that educate children is not acceptable to conservatives, because it is partially linked to sexuality, whereas other disabilities and diseases are not.

But that is the Republicans' strange way of looking at today's world.

	23-07-2002 04:05									#176
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus So what's the link with Jim Henson?

Henson and his group designed Bert, Ernie, Cokkie Monster and the other original muppet characters on Sesame Street, but the show is produced by CTW. Henson's company is known as "The Muppet Factory". His company also designed "Rigel" on Farscape, but they don't produce that show either.

	23-07-2002 07:19									#177
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It seems like a lot of people are arguing that the HIV positive muppet is needed in order to somehow slow the spread of AIDS. How is this going to work? Children at the age appropriate to the show have no control over whether they will become infected. They aren't sexually active, are too young to be injecting themselves and all of their medical care (like transfusions) is determined by others. This argument is a non-sequitor.

I've lost one close friend to AIDS, and a cousin. I'm all for education in order to stop the spread of this very preventable and terrible disease. I just don't see the point of this particular muppet here in the USA. I'd rather see age appropriate information disseminated which helps children deal with much more common problems like abuse and neglect which effects many more children more deeply than one of their friends being HIV positive. Sure the character could be written in such a way that it would be harmless to the psyches of the young viewers. What's the harm in that?

Opportunity cost. By kowtowing to the obviously emotional group of people who seem to think that even ineffectual efforts are worthwhile, we will be wasting a resource that is currently doing a great job addressing a host of more important educational and social issues. I think that there should be a debate about what sorts of issues we need to address on this program, I just think that this particular idea should be set aside and the resources under discussion utilized for something more relevent. The status quo is a better use of the screen time.

	23-07-2002 07:28									#178
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Theres a point