18-07-2002 04:05									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Sesame street is alos apparently sold to many countries throughout the world, so the question is: who owns the production company? Is it owned by PBS, or does PBS simply buy its product? If the production company is privately owned then I don't believe that the Senators have a leg to stand on.

But TV has ratings in the US

and the government has traditionally regulated content

of course, if Sesame street is not owned by the governemnt the government cannot control it

but it can regulate what is on it's waves

of course, this is only an issue in your heads, because sesame street is not tryig to make it so here

Jon Miller

	18-07-2002 04:05									#62
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quote: if it become a problem such that kids 2-6 are hearing about it in their everyday life (even if only 10% of kids that age), than it will be time for it to be on telivision for them

And who decides when something is, and when something isn't a problem? Sounds like the media being controlled by the state. Dangerous ground you're treading on, Jonny-boy

	18-07-2002 04:07									#63
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quote: this is only an issue in your heads, because sesame street is not tryig to make it so here

But say the US version of Sesame Street wants to do the same as in South Africa. Do you think the governement should ban the show?

Be careful about your answer...

	18-07-2002 04:07									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Head in the sand again. You think it isn't an issue in the USA?

Are you truly saying that kids ages 2-6 even hear the words HIV currently?

Much less deal with someone who has the disease (I am not even asking for a majority of kids, I am asking if 3% do).

THis is not so in the US.

So there si no need for it in children's programming here.

Jon Miller

	18-07-2002 04:10									#65
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quote: So there si no need for it in children's programming here.

There is no need for 99% of the crap on air in the US nowadays. That argument doesn't hold ground. If the makers want it in, it's their decision.

	18-07-2002 04:10									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus And who decides when something is, and when something isn't a problem? Sounds like the media being controlled by the state. Dangerous ground you're treading on, Jonny-boy

There is already media controlled by the state.

You cannot have porn on broadcast channels for example, nor certain levels of gore and violence (before a certain time), nor certain (none porn) levels of sex.

It is all in issue of when it is appropriate and in the US it is not appropriate now (for that age group).

Jon Miller

	18-07-2002 04:10									#67
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I'm pining in

I remember the first AP articles that came out on this a few days ago said the production company which does Sesame Street has possible plans to use the HIV positive muppet in US and UK versions if it's a success in South Africa. That's the position US TV seems to be putting forth for the couple days it was mentioned.

US tax dollars go to a lot more wasteful and irresponsible things than teaching about HIV in South Africa. As for it being in US Sesame street I doubt any of the children watching Sesame street in the US are going to know about how HIV or would understand it if they were taught about it. Fixing something that isn't broken.

I also doubt how much South African children are going to know about HIV or anything related at such a young age.

Sesame street is watched by kids around 2 to 5 maybe, after that they get to cartoons. Messages about HIV positive individuals aren't dangerous and such are just going to confuse them. Hell most don't understand disease or death and don't need to. No 4 year olds are doing things that could get them infected with HIV, and no other kids are probably going to know they have HIV, and I'm assuming kids so young don't know about death or HIV is going to kill them so if they play with a kid that has HIV they don't know any reason to be scared. So why put it in their minds.

	18-07-2002 04:11									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus There is no need for 99% of the crap on air in the US nowadays. That argument doesn't hold ground. If the makers want it in, it's their decision.

There are different ratings, 99% of the crap on TV does not have a kids rating (nor a young kids rating).

Jon Miller

	18-07-2002 04:12									#69
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quote: You cannot have porn on broadcast channels for example, nor certain levels of gore and violence (before a certain time), nor certain (none porn) levels of sex.

It's nothing like that.

quote: It is all in issue of when it is appropriate and in the US it is not appropriate now (for that age group).

So change the age rating for that particular show. Why ban it?

	18-07-2002 04:13									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Par4 I'm pining in I remember the first AP articles that came out on this a few days ago said the production company which does Sesame Street has possible plans to use the HIV positive muppet in US and UK versions if it's a success in South Africa. That's the position US TV seems to be putting forth for the couple days it was mentioned. US tax dollars go to a lot more wasteful and irresponsible things than teaching about HIV in South Africa. As for it being in US Sesame street I doubt any of the children watching Sesame street in the US are going to know about how HIV or would understand it if they were taught about it. Fixing something that isn't broken. I also doubt how much South African children are going to know about HIV or anything related at such a young age. Sesame street is watched by kids around 2 to 5 maybe, after that they get to cartoons. Messages about HIV positive individuals aren't dangerous and such are just going to confuse them. Hell most don't understand disease or death and don't need to. No 4 year olds are doing things that could get them infected with HIV, and no other kids are probably going to know they have HIV, and I'm assuming kids so young don't know about death or HIV is going to kill them so if they play with a kid that has HIV they don't know any reason to be scared. So why put it in their minds.

I disagree with you about Africa. IT is an epidemic over there and should be treated as such. That includes informing the kids at a young age (because they are having to deal with the deaths of freinds and relatives, and maybe even their own issues with HIV).

Jon Miller

	18-07-2002 04:14									#71
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quote: There are different ratings, 99% of the crap on TV does not have a kids rating (nor a young kids rating).

So change the ratings for the show, and let the parents decide wheter or not their child should watch it.

	18-07-2002 04:15									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus It's nothing like that. So change the age rating for that particular show. Why ban it?

It would make it no longer a show for the really young. Which would be the same thing as banning it considering that that is it's target audience (And the reason the US pays for it)

Jon Miller

	18-07-2002 04:15									#73
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V-chips are great things.

Jon, not all parents are like you. Many would let their kids watch it even with the new rating. I know I would.

	18-07-2002 04:17									#74
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Par4,

quote: No 4 year olds are doing things that could get them infected with HIV, and no other kids are probably going to know they have HIV, and I'm assuming kids so young don't know about death or HIV is going to kill them so if they play with a kid that has HIV they don't know any reason to be scared. So why put it in their minds.

Not true. In some parts of South Africa, anything up to a third of women of child-bearing age are HIV+. This means that it is likely that upwards of a quarter (and that's a conservative estimate) of South African pre-school children will have contracted HIV in the womb. This isn't about telling pre-school children about sex or contraception - this is about telling children that their classmates who are HIV+ are just the same as them, and deserve to be treated as such, and not bullied, or ran away from. What's the problem?

	18-07-2002 04:18									#75
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quote: Which would be the same thing as banning it considering that that is it's target audience (And the reason the US pays for it)

Of course not. It's not illegal for a kid to watch a show not suitable for kids. That's up to the parents. And hardly any normal minded parent will stop their kids from watching Sesame Street because of this.

Furthermore, it will create a public outcry if the Senate dares to do anything like that to Sesame Street.

	18-07-2002 04:19									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Asher V-chips are great things. Jon, not all parents are like you. Many would let their kids watch it even with the new rating. I know I would.

but it would no longer be given the children's spot

so it would be the same as canceling it

and I hope that you think some before you have children

Jon Miller

	18-07-2002 04:20									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Of course not. It's not illegal for a kid to watch a show not suitable for kids. That's up to the parents. And hardly any normal minded parent will stop their kids from watching Sesame Street because of this. Furthermore, it will create a public outcry if the Senate dares to do anything like that to Sesame Street.

sesame street is not near as big as it use to be

and many parents would agree with me

Jon Miller

	18-07-2002 04:21									#78
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quote: and I hope that you think some before you have children

So you really won't let your kids watch Sesame Street should they put the character in question in?

That's really sad. I feel sorry for your kids.

	18-07-2002 04:21									#79
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I've never been to South Africa, the closest I have is I know a girl who was born there, never asked her anything about HIV or AIDS though.

All I'm saying is at young 2 to say 5 or 6 when kids play in the park or at a young age at school do they know they have HIV. Do they ask kids do they have HIV and avoid them. I'm under the impression they don't know and don't need to know until they are older.

	18-07-2002 04:23									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller but it would no longer be given the children's spot so it would be the same as canceling it and I hope that you think some before you have children Jon Miller

I love you and your outstanding moral code.

You'll definitely go to heaven for that one.

My parents were always honest with me, and I'll do the same with my kids. Not allowing the kids to watch Seasme Street because you don't think they can handle being told it's okay to play with HIV-infected children is your own perogative, but don't you dare tell me to think before I have kids.

You're the one that's going to raise your kid as a God-fearing Christian.

	18-07-2002 04:24									#81
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quote: and many parents would agree with me

most won't


or the US is even more ****ed up than I expected.

	18-07-2002 04:26									#82
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quote: This man must be -so- not-removed from the South African society.

like, totally

	18-07-2002 04:28									#83
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quote: sesame street is not near as big as it use to be

True. But you also have Teletubbies, which features a gay character.

	18-07-2002 04:31									#84
	Why? Tired of ads?

How many kids know other HIV kids are infected in your countries, and as long as no one tells them otherwise small children are going to have no reason to assume HIV positive children are anything to fear irrationally. Any small kids aren't going to doing anything risky that could get them the disease I seriously doubt they'd be getting their bodily fluids mixed up so why even bother putting it in their minds in the first place. Why even let them bother with HIV at such a young age, let them age a little. Sesame street is watched by 4 year olds not 10 year olds.

Also is that teletubbies character openly gay, and I doubt kids watching teletubbies are going to know about gay or straight or homosexual or heterosexual.

I say too young

	18-07-2002 04:38									#85
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I'm fairly sure they would know... as we've seen from just this thread, parents are often irrational creatures ("stay away from that kid, he's got HIV") All it takes is one parents like that, and rumours quickly spread on the playground. Even if that isn't the case, what do you say when at 5 years old, a child's best friend dies suddenly?

	18-07-2002 04:46									#86
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Saint Marcus, Given that prostitution is legal in Holland, the next thing we should have is a muppet whore momma with a bad Dutch accent - to teach our kids that it is OK to be a hooker.

	18-07-2002 04:53									#87
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I have to agree with Par4 and Jon Miller. The kids in the US and most of Europe have no idea bout HIV. To expose them to something like this when they are that young (and they'll ask Mom and Dad was it is) just isn't really a good thing, I think. Like Jon said 9-10 are good ages to start bringing it up.

	18-07-2002 04:59									#88
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I have nothing against an HIV+ muppet. HIV will be with us for a long time to come; the more people know the better. Whats next though? Ernie with cancer? The Count with hepatitis?

	18-07-2002 05:06									#89
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Spencer, But what is the point? That HIV is OK and not to be feared? The character, if I understand it correctly, is not going to suffer at all. It may be one thing teach kids not to fear the one infected. It is quite another to teach them that HIV is not really harmful.

In the movie Philidelphia, Hanks died.

	18-07-2002 05:30									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Spencer, But what is the point? That HIV is OK and not to be feared? The character, if I understand it correctly, is not going to suffer at all. It may be one thing teach kids not to fear the one infected. It is quite another to teach them that HIV is not really harmful. In the movie Philidelphia, Hanks died.

I may have missed something since I didnt have the energy to read the whole thread. From my perspective, HIV is an infection that we will have to deal with for a long time. HIV+ muppets are not the end of the world and my reaction to this character will depend on how its handled (ie what are the goals of presenting such a character).