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MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:21
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The Israelis are still going to be spending whatever it is they spent on defense for the last thirty years, and it's still going to be untenable withoud your support...
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allow me to dissagree, on two points.
1) We can afford our defence budget , without the US support. The US support is 2% of the GDP. It would be harder , though.
2) The defence spending will go down , I estimate by up to 20% , Because of the cost of placing operational troops on a daily basis for years, won't be included, And also there is the possible cut in actual equipment. But that's a long shot , as long as Syria is at war with us, and Egypt's peace is ice-cold.
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Sirotnikov
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<--- Yes, It's a "kitty" in a boot.
Feb 2000
time: 07:21
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Flagrantly untrue. Do a search on it yourself. |
I distictively remember, after making such searches in the past, that 3-4 millions is an old figure.
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Siro, in the Oslo treaty the west bank was guaranteed to be treated as a coherent entity |
For the duration of the interim period. This was done to prevent palestinian independance declaration
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The viabilty of the potential palestinian state is naturally one of the biggest issues, so an offer not presenting a coherent state is less than an offer that does. |
How is having jerusalem, or refugees in Israel going to make it more viable?
If you read the press releases immediatelly after camp david, and not the rewritten history on the PA information ministry website, you'll see that those were the most serious points of conflict.
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In the camp david proposal, the west bank was divided into a minium of two physically separate cantons. |
huh?
How exactly was the west bank divided into cantons? And why I haven't seen such a map yet?
And what about the Tabaa offer, where some 97% were offered, including the whole of Gaza, and the Jordan valley immediatelly (compared to over a period of 4 years, as originally suggested in camp david)??
You're reading rewritten history.
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That the first treaty was temporary is not relevant. It was never intended to be permanent, but would only stay in effect until final negotiations were under way.
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I completely afree that Oslo was temporary and is not relevant anymore. So stop trying to abuse it's wording to say we promised the whole west bank.
Do you actually think that Israel under Rabin, Israel after the 1988 intifada, agreed to give up the entire west bank?
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Siro, what is your point in regards to the second massacre you talk about? Are you saying that Sharon is repsonsible for that one too? Or are you trying to defend Sharon with 'the palestinians did something bad too?'
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My point is that you're seeking out Israeli crimes and jumping up and down blaming Israel, while ignoring it's enviroment.
It's like taking a person that lives in some wild prairy in Africa, where he has to kill to survive, and judge him Hague.
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CyberGnu
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of the Virtual Serengeti
Apr 1999
time: 05:21
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quote:
I completely afree that Oslo was temporary and is not relevant anymore. So stop trying to abuse it's wording to say we promised the whole west bank.
Do you actually think that Israel under Rabin, Israel after the 1988 intifada, agreed to give up the entire west bank?
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Actually, he did. Well, he offered to implement resolution 242, which the entire world interpreted as give up all Israeli occupied territory (i.e. everything outside the green line). At that point the spin started again, however, with the endless debating about the word 'all'. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.
That is neither here nor there, however. A lot of more important people than us have wrangled that for years without getting to a solution.
I thus did not claim that the Oslo treaty offered the entire west bank. I claimed that it offered a viable palestinian state. That is it. Nothing else. And I've shown it with the actual line from the Oslo treaty.
The camp david offer did not offer a viable palestinian state, however, and the repetition of 'Arafat refused a very generous offer' is just another grand political lie.
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CyberGnu
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of the Virtual Serengeti
Apr 1999
time: 05:21
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quote:
My point is that you're seeking out Israeli crimes and jumping up and down blaming Israel, while ignoring it's enviroment.
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Well, I didn't bring it up, Ned did. I guess you have to yell at him for seeking out Israels crimes and jumping and whatnot... 
But, since you brought it up as well...
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It's like taking a person that lives in some wild prairy in Africa, where he has to kill to survive, and judge him Hague. |
So, how did the palestinian civilians in those camps threaten Sharon? In the same way those evil jews threatened Hitler, perhaps?
Face it, siro... I can understand you defending Israels occupation... Israel has been feeding your doctored history all your life, and it doesn't make you a bad person becuase you are mislead.
But defending sharons massacre of civilians is really beyond the pale. It was a crime against humanity, and if there is one people on earth that should hate it more than any else, it should be the jews....
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21-07-2002 09:19
Cybergnu smarten up before you decide to discuss this with me. The Palestinians could of got there own state if they agreed to the terms set by the Clinton and Barak adminstrations but they didn't. And don't give me this crap about the treaty being unfair... it most definitely was fair.
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