31-07-2002 01:52									#181
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quote: Originally posted by Julius Brenzaida yes I know, my "red plan" was weird. But I thought it was funny to try to build this giant unit factory, kind of like giving birth to a new nation.

Don't be ashamed, Julius! Your giant unit factory is fun and might prove very useful if we start really waging war. Think of what an army of 40-50 None cavalry may achieve!

	31-07-2002 02:01									#182
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits La Fayette Nice turns You do like Railroad early [----------------------------- SG(2)

I hate it when it kills HG, but it brings so much!

BTW this reminds me of people laughing at the AI building so many RR. They should never forget that if the RR linking 2 cities is on the optimal path the trade route is increased by 50% (and many people who build only one RR don't get those 50% because the RR they built is not on the optimal path )

	31-07-2002 03:28									#183
	Remove this text

La Fayette I have not studied the case for very early railroad. The problem is that it kills the Gardens and decreases trade bonuses. My strategy is to overcome the Railroad Trade Gap as quickly as possible. If Economics has been gained before Railways, then the chances are that Darwin's will bring in Industrialisation and Corporation...which restores trade! On a good day Genetic Engineering will be available afterwards which allows CfC...the new HG.

-----------------

SG(2)

	31-07-2002 04:25									#184
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Okay, in the interest of moving things along, I'll have a go at it now. Mr N can follow on tomorrow.

	31-07-2002 13:49									#185
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

SG(2)
Your strategy looks very reasonable to me, especially if you manage to get Corporation very soon without delaying RR too much.
IMO there are 2 different problems: HG and Trade.
1) HG
Very useful for easy WLTCD growth, therefore don't discover RR if you plan a good deal of growth within a few turns.
OTOH delaying RR just because you have HG is silly IMO, because RR brings so much and your civ should be happy enough not to need HG badly when you are close to RR.
2) Trade
RR is bad for the one time bonus and good for the ongoing trade routes.
Therefore if you discover RR and don't build RR: it is BAD.
OTOH if you build many RR quickly and manage to delay deliveries until you get Corporation and freights: it is VERY GOOD.
(conclusion: perhaps I am accustomed to build it a bit too soon ... and you a bit too late )

	31-07-2002 14:12									#186
	Support Apolyton

I set several goals for this round:
1)trade and use bonus cash for buying WOW(3), beakers for advances(6). CfC was a major goal, to get us back on the happiness track, and I rushed Bach's and Darwin as well.

2)roads and rail system...roads were finished on worked squares for the arrows and the rail system started...had to add many Eng'rs, and more are on the way. My thinking is to use them for combat support later, after the rails are down and some mines completed. (Next in line may want to switch a few)

3)build some infra structure for growth that will begin with CfC. There are several cities that will look great with a little attenion.

4) rationalize the Barbs on "Red Island." I left one red city after getting 6-7 horses and 4 Knights from a hut spew, elsewhere. That Island has too good a potential to leave it to the Barbs, IMHO. Can't raise a family with such as that running wild in the streets.

I practiced extensive tickling of trade goods and rushing of white goods. For this reason I put off researching Chivalry to preserve the horse for that purpose. At some point (I think we need to grow first) we need to address our lack of an Armed Force or Navy. Working on Conscription now. I also added dips to our border cities in case the Chins or Babs come calling. Some allied Indians are tromping around Sticky Mouse but aren't in the way yet.

I have the taxes set to 10%; we have been getting more than I could spend from trade. I left a tidy cash balance. If I were to be continueing to play, I was thinking I would build Hoover Dam, so we could add some factories and "muscle up".

I think I have left a pretty good Republic behind as I step down. I am forgoing a log as such because it is pretty much all the same...$$$for Freight to XYZ ...and my typing takes forever. I kept a log by hand if there are questions. This was fun!!

Attachment: st_a1660.sav
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	31-07-2002 14:33									#187
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

One more thing- which probably does not need reminding, but here goes anyway. We are at a point in the tech tree where (since we are probably going to war) we need to run down the line to Tactics before we research Auto. In my games I get in such a hurry for Superhighways that I forget that Auto kills Leo. Not a good sequence error to make, from my experience.

Also, there is a Chin Crook following behind our Explorer west of Not Another! on the So. Pole. I was hoping to bribe him when he went past and got to the Carthaginian Islet for another NON unit. But he is slow.

	31-07-2002 15:44									#188
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Sounds great BM - well played! Three Wonders indeed!

SG[1]

	31-07-2002 15:56									#189
	Remove this text

... and now all the work will be charged on my frail shoulders...
I'll take care of our beloved Republic this evening...

[music/on]
...tu pah dum-dah, money money money,tu pah dum-dah, 4wheeledcamels,tu pah dum-dah, super-superhighways,tu pah dum-dah...
[music/off]

	31-07-2002 23:17									#190
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Well done Bloody Monk. Can someone tell me what "white goods" are?

	31-07-2002 23:55									#191
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Mr. Niccolò, wears his Armani toga, and becomes the Coolest consul.
It’s year 1680 our power is supreme and we have an excellent reputation (?) 2274golds in treasury, and a good number of cities (28... gosh, ICSers...). Currently researching Conscription Mr. Nik demands to the sages why are we building marketplaces in size 1 town?
Great micromanagements efforts are done to support our beloved Republic. More caravans, where are the acquaducts? We want to grow! So Mr. Nik with the “Las Vegas act” pumps up luxuries to an accettable 50%.
The gov’t points will be:
More tax
More Lux (sorry for the coneheads, they will drive vans instead)
We want Hoover Dam!
More camels or, better, 4 wheeled camels!
... and we want highways to drive our Ferrari!
1680 vans delivered in Bombay: 110+160g
1690 Chinese learn how to make pyrotechnic works
1700 CONSCRIPTION à w e go for REFINING “New Deal Policy” starts 30-20-50, trade expedition starts (7 freights shipchained to India)
1710 We are 9 millions! Trade expedition delivered to Bombay. 1300g earned in a single turn (and beakers too!)
1720 Egypt is a Republic!
1730
1740 REFINING à we go for STEEL (tempted by Fundy ... but I remembered we are and always will be a Rep!) goods to Bombay 212g
1750
1752
1754 French building suffrage...
1756 12 millions Mr. Nik resigns, we have built Hoover’sDam... if my successor wants to swap it for Suffrage we will be able to complete the HD in short time...

I’ve built a lot of Acquaducts, Markets, some courthouses and temples, built railroad system, now terrain needs to be improved and some roads need to be built...

	31-07-2002 23:59									#192
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... the save...

Attachment: st_a1756.zip
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	01-08-2002 00:52									#193
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I'll pick up the save and play tonight or tomorrow morning

	01-08-2002 01:42									#194
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quote: Originally posted by El Civ Well done Bloody Monk. Can someone tell me what "white goods" are?

Sorry for the confusion, El Civ. "White goods" is a term of art that I first noticed being used by the Scousers. It refers to buildings and other improvements and derives from the color choice of those things in the city status screen...units are yellow, improvements are white.

	01-08-2002 02:16									#195
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quote: Originally posted by Messer Niccolò Mr. Niccolò, wears his Armani toga, and becomes the Coolest consul. It’s year 1680 our power is supreme and we have an excellent reputation (?) 2274golds in treasury, and a good number of cities (28... gosh, ICSers...). Currently researching Conscription Mr. Nik demands to the sages why are we building marketplaces in size 1 town?...

Good job, Mr. Nik!! We are a powerful trading civ, and you have successfully built up our cities and doubled our Population.

As to the jibe about "Market in a size 1 town", all I can say is that it is a matter of what one sees. You saw a dirt-hole, SilkAbby, and I saw a powerful offshore trade city with whales, silk, and fishies. For me it was one turn and buy, three times, send in one of Far Village's two Eng'rs to join; and in six turns it would have had a harbor, Mkt. Pl., courthouse, been size three and ready to celebrate up, up and away. Maybe not sage exactly, but that's why.

There was no good reason to raise the Lux rate until CfC was built which happened just before I finished. Cities could not celebrate until then. I really wanted to take some extra turns to get the rush that rapid expansion causes. God, how I love this game. I'm glad you got to enjoy the party.

	01-08-2002 02:31									#196
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I forgot to make note of the punchline/summary.

What is obvious to one player often makes no impact on the next in Succession Games and yet the game continues to unfold in its own beautiful way. There is no one "right" move; the genius of the game is the multiple ways it can be played and everyone can have fun with it.

	01-08-2002 12:29									#197
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk send in one of Far Village's two Eng'rs to join; and in six turns it would have had a harbor, Mkt. Pl.,

... yes but we were a little short on the engineers side.
I had to build railroad as fas as I could then I started to improve some land near our cities so I was not thinking to add an engineer and then begin to celebrate.

quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk There was no good reason to raise the Lux rate until CfC was built which happened just before I finished. I really wanted to take some extra turns to get the rush that rapid expansion causes.

ok! And that's what I did!
Now, we should have good cities (of course I didn't start to build sewers due to lack of funds) we have a good choice either build HDam and then- with theboosted shield production- the Suffrage or build the Suffrage (just to let the French with a bunch of flies ) and then the Dam.

My successor will have to take this really hard decision!

	01-08-2002 21:06									#198
	Put an end to popups!

Am I missing something? What is the attraction of Women's Suffrage in a Republic?

SG[1]

Good turns all - RL seriously interfering at the moment...

	01-08-2002 21:28									#199
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quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits Am I missing something? What is the attraction of Women's Suffrage in a Republic? SG[1] Good turns all - RL seriously interfering at the moment...

RL???...=real life???

	01-08-2002 23:57									#200
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits Am I missing something? What is the attraction of Women's Suffrage in a Republic? SG[1]

(chest puffed out proudly - having already built Hoover and ignored WS )

I'll have my turns finished tonight. This isn't a monster, but there's a lot of micro- involved - moving freights, rushing and so on...

Hopefully RL will let you play Friday.

	02-08-2002 00:02									#201
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I don't know if my turn will come up or not but I will be out of town this weekend (back Sunday night). If Sunday night/Monday during the day is too late I can join in wherever you wish.

	02-08-2002 09:05									#202
	Back in black (leather) Got spare money?

1756, and the Coolest Consul rides back into power. Sauntering into the Senate, he raps his knuckles on the jukebox and 'Ride of the Valkyries' fills the air, to a round of 's from the senators...

Order of business:
-We'll finish Hoover. The production bonus should help us get Suffrage, if we want it. Oh wait - no factories yet? Anyway, if we don't go to Demo, Suffrage isn't as much of an issue.
-Retake Eye on Egypt
-Get our military into better form, so we can impose our will (i.e. Trade) with impunity.
-Trade!

1756: taxes adjusted to 2.5.3

1758: Hoover Dam in StickyMouse>Factory. Our ship chain seems somewhat discombobulated. Taxes tweaked to 1.5.4.

1760: Steel>Leadership Oil>StickyMouse, 90g North Lookout founded. 2 Caravans>Bombay, 208 g. Taxes 2.5.3 Factory rushed in StickyMouse. A large force of NON Knights sails for Egyptian lands... destination Eye on Egypt!

1762: Factory in StickyMouse>Freight. Gold>Delhi, 114 g. Some serious terrain improvement commences around StickyMouse... our rivers aren't roaded, even!

Chinese demand Industrialization... then declare war when we ask them to leave

Barbarians land near J'Accuse.

1764: Riflemen purchased in China Ferry. Celebrations turned down a notch, to 2.2.6.

Babylonians and Chinese ally against us! Egyptians start Suffrage!

Chinese offer a cease fire, which is accepted.

1766: Gold>Delhi thrice 402 g, 264 g, 306 g. Some white goods are rushed.

1768: Leadership>Tactics Copper(d)>StickyMouse 46g
Coal StickyMouse>Chartres 635g, Dye>Lyons 88 g, Wool>Chartres 400 g, Hides>Chartres 120 g. More rushing.

1770: Tactics>Refrigeration Dye>Bombay 76g, Oil>StickyMouse(d) twice, 140g, 114g. More rushing.

Egyptians discover Communism. Marco shall Polo no more.

1772: Dye StickyMouse>Bombay, 512g, Silk Senator's Beach>Bombay, 354 g. More rushing.

1774: Refrigeration>Communism Multiple 'vans to Chartres, 120, 166, 44, 144, 126g. Copper(d)>StickyMouse 84g. Barb King caught near J'Accuse, 150g.

Massive force of NON Cavalry lands near Eye on Egypt. The streets run red with Egyptian Blood as we recapture the city. Communism taken (Ooh, how convenient... almost like it was planned that way )

UN production rushed, with some food Freights.

Coal StickyMouse>Chartres 690g, Oil>Chartres twice 120, 198 g.

Supermarket rushed in StickyMouse.

1776: Researching.... mmmm... Espionage. United Nations in Spicealitum. Luxuries adjusted to 2.4.4 to start celebrations anew.

Silk>Bombay 192g, Gold>Lyons 264 g.

1778: Espionage>Machine Tools. Gold>Delhi 78g. Tribe Tyrusonforsize discovered N of Macao. Oil SenateChapel>StickyMouse 108g.

("Which Egyptian city to capture next?" muses STYOM)

Chinese start SoL.

1780: Hieraconpolis defenders routed by our Cavalry and the city is taken with 11 g plunder. Senators give a to continuing the war So encouraged, our Cavalry slaughter the garrison of Madras.

Dye>Tours 304g. Silk ChinaMission>StickyMouse 86g.

A chick on each arm, STYOM strolls out of the Senate in his leather jacket, the jukebox fading away...

*****************

I tried to restrain my normal impulse to found some cities and instead concentrated on trading. A lot of markets, sewers and aqueducts were rushed, and I rushed some freights to keep the flow of science and cash coming. Sticky Mouse is now size 24 and should keep growing with the engineers busy working on terraforming hills and 2 others creating farmland.

A few notes:
- French still haven't finished Suffrage
- the Egyptians are second to us in power but don't even have Gunpowder yet, so we have a window of opportunity to do them some serious damage. All flags are down in Madras, but we have 4 Cavalry stacked there that are at risk, and another 5 in and around Hieraconpolis.
- Ship chain is in place to trade with French and Indians (French seem more lucrative generally) Caravan N of Lyon can deliver demanded Copper to Rheims(15) next turn.
- we are well positioned now to celebrate our key cities up to 15+ size, in most cases, more with some terrain work. The road is open to the stars, or conquest with our mass of Non-units.

Attachment: st_a1780.sav
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	02-08-2002 10:32									#203
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Looking very good STYOM!!!

Looking over the map I noticed something that may be of interest. It concerns the "Red Island". There is probably a hidden special to be mined in Red Haven (Silk would be wonderful). If Erehwon is burned down for the Eng'rs, a canal could be built with one in the narrows just above. This would be the "Egytian-Carthagenian Passage", a much shorter route. The second Engr could build using the whales there or for mining the special in Red Haven. Just a thought.

	02-08-2002 12:37									#204
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits Am I missing something? What is the attraction of Women's Suffrage in a Republic? SG[1] Good turns all - RL seriously interfering at the moment...

The real attraction is to steal it from the French ...

	02-08-2002 22:57									#205
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

stealing from the French shouldn't be any attraction at all ...
BTW IMO Women's Suffrage can be very useful ALSO under Rep (if you wish to stay in Republic and sail more than one ironclad/coastal city ).

	03-08-2002 00:13									#206
	Increase Your PM Length

Yes, Suffrage is very good in Republic, as it allows to have big armies. You just need factories because the units cost so many shields, but you don't have to increase lux rates once your cities have stopped growing.

	03-08-2002 00:20									#207
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I don't know if Suffrage will be necessary at all, but we certainly should have no trouble either buying or conquering it.

Kudos to Julius for the Red cities... the strategy is paying off now, as every 2-3 turns a barb Knight appears, which is then bribed and turns into Cavalry a few turns later. We have 10 of those mercenaries in Egyptian territory, and could probably conquer Egypt with those alone (poor Egyptians are still working on Gunpowder )

	03-08-2002 00:34									#208
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STYOM Good Play

_________________

The SGs ready to get sloshed on tour

	03-08-2002 00:39									#209
	Inflate your Upload Space

In the absence of the SG's for the next 2 weeks and change, I appoint myself town bully in charge of administering this game

Play order:

El Civ - to play
Julius Brenzaida
La Fayette
Messer Niccolo
Bloody Monk
STYOM

	03-08-2002 02:22									#210
	Inflate your Upload Space

@ STYOM

Note the post at the top of this page from El Civ...he is unavailable until Sunday night and suggests he be moved down the list, if someone wants to play this weekend.