28-07-2002 03:32									#91
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It's all about expectations. The problem is that most people expect monogamy in a relationship. If you don't let your partner know that this is not an expectation of yours and you won't be bound by that 'rule', trouble will be sure to ensue.

Of course, trouble will often ensue on the spot when you inform your partner of said expectation. But better sooner than later, before you've each invested time in the other.

	28-07-2002 03:34									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus in most marriages, the woman doesn't completely satisfy the man. Does that give the man the right to sleep around?

See my post below yours. He certainly has the right to make that expectation known to her. She can then capitulate, compromise, or split.

	28-07-2002 03:50									#93
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marriages are by definition monogamous I think, unless specifically stated otherwise.

	28-07-2002 03:53									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus marriages are by definition monogamous I think, unless specifically stated otherwise.

For some reason... it's how they've always been, so everyone expects that. Make those specific statements otherwise, everyone!

	28-07-2002 03:55									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus in most marriages, the woman doesn't completely satisfy the man. Does that give the man the right to sleep around?

Oh sure, if you are an admirer of Mr. Floyd conception it’s absolutely true.
As for me, most of women don’t have orgasm only because their partners are unable to satisfy them.
Any NORMAL men before he will marry with someone will sleep with this girl. And only after this, he will decide- is he ready to marry her or not.

Can anyone explain to my: Why do you think that it is cool when virgin is married on virgin?

	28-07-2002 03:58									#96
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quote: As for me, most of women don’t have orgasm only because their partners are unable to satisfy them.

I guess you haven't heard of the large number of women who are simply unable to have orgasms during intercourse, no matter how skilled the guy may be. There have been dozens of studies on this.

	28-07-2002 04:00									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Why do you think that it is cool when virgin is married on virgin?

I'm not sure who you're addressing that one to, but I always think that would mean - low expectations re: sex. Maybe the two of them would make it work out sexually - or maybe one or the other of them would have an experience later in life that would disillusion him/her.

Regardless, you're probably better knowing beforehand. But even then, people change. Best to be upfront about it.

	28-07-2002 07:07									#98
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quote: The men who don't know how to satisfy a woman, (especially his own wife) is a total moron. If his wife looking for satisfaction with someone else HE is responsible in this situation too and perhaps even more then she.

Bullshit. If the wife is looking for satisfaction with someone else SHE is MUCH more responsible for that than he is. She is the one doing the looking. She is the one that is sleeping with other men without breaking up with her mate. HER fault, not his.

She is the one lying, he is not. It is the lie that is the greater wrong here.

	28-07-2002 12:47									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus I guess you haven't heard of the large number of women who are simply unable to have orgasms during intercourse, no matter how skilled the guy may be.

Bullshit.

	28-07-2002 12:53									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: The men who don't know how to satisfy a woman, (especially his own wife) is a total moron. If his wife looking for satisfaction with someone else HE is responsible in this situation too and perhaps even more then she. Bullshit. If the wife is looking for satisfaction with someone else SHE is MUCH more responsible for that than he is. She is the one doing the looking. She is the one that is sleeping with other men without breaking up with her mate. HER fault, not his. She is the one lying, he is not. It is the lie that is the greater wrong here.

Listen Imran, I don't like you, you don't like me, perhaps we should stop this bs?
But, you are completely wrong. I’m not trying to find out who is more responsible in this situation. I just said that guy is responsible also.

	28-07-2002 13:00									#101
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why does e erypne have to make arguments personal/?

Jon Miller

	28-07-2002 13:01									#102
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umm

there are some obvious and not so obvious spelling mistakes in that post

one of the not so obvious onesis

make = take

Jon Miller

	28-07-2002 18:11									#103
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For someone who doesn't believe in sex without marriage, I of course think its wrong. Sleeping with someone while you are in a relactionship with someone else--shameful.

	28-07-2002 19:19									#104
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I have never been in a monogamous relationship. I have never had anyone tell me I can't **** anyone else, nor have I ever told any of my partners that they can't **** anyone else. I have no problem when the person I am dating has intercourse with someone else, it's when they start developing feelings for another person that I start to get bothered.
****ing to me is nothing more than physical contact (like a massage or back scratching). "Making love" is something completely different.

	28-07-2002 19:34									#105
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Blisterz, but the point of this argument is whether or not those conditions are known to the partner or not.

If you enter into a relationship with someone and it is made clear that monogamy isn't expected, that you are both allowed to sleep with other folks, that's one thing. That's an "open relationship," and as long as both partners consent to it, it's fine.

But what Imran and Serb seem to be arguing about is one in which such an expectation is not known, meaning at least one of the partners expected a monogamous relationship. Imran is asserting that if a someone cheats on a partner in this kind of relationship, then that person is acted wrongly, is 100% at fault for the cheating and should bear the burden of responsibility.

Serb is asserting that there are factors which make it "okay" for someone to cheat on a partner, such as the partner not sexually satisfying the person.

IMO, Imran is 100% correct. If two people are together under the concept of monogamy, then they had better remain monogamous. If one is not being satisfied, he or she needs to address that issue with the partner and, if all else fails, leave the relationship to seek satisfaction elsewhere. Cheating on a partner in a monogamous relationship is INEXCUSABLE, and if you do it, your partner has every reasonable cause to boot your butt to the curb in the harshest manner possible. It is lying and betraying your partner.

If you don't like monogamy, then don't enter into monogamous relationships. That's fine. But if you enter into one wherein your partner is expecting monogamy and you cheat, you're a sleaze and it's all on your head, not anyone else's.

	28-07-2002 19:50									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Blisterz, but the point of this argument is whether or not those conditions are known to the partner or not. If you enter into a relationship with someone and it is made clear that monogamy isn't expected, that you are both allowed to sleep with other folks, that's one thing. That's an "open relationship," and as long as both partners consent to it, it's fine. But what Imran and Serb seem to be arguing about is one in which such an expectation is not known, meaning at least one of the partners expected a monogamous relationship. Imran is asserting that if a someone cheats on a partner in this kind of relationship, then that person is acted wrongly, is 100% at fault for the cheating and should bear the burden of responsibility. Serb is asserting that there are factors which make it "okay" for someone to cheat on a partner, such as the partner not sexually satisfying the person. IMO, Imran is 100% correct. If two people are together under the concept of monogamy, then they had better remain monogamous. If one is not being satisfied, he or she needs to address that issue with the partner and, if all else fails, leave the relationship to seek satisfaction elsewhere. Cheating on a partner in a monogamous relationship is INEXCUSABLE, and if you do it, your partner has every reasonable cause to boot your butt to the curb in the harshest manner possible. It is lying and betraying your partner. If you don't like monogamy, then don't enter into monogamous relationships. That's fine. But if you enter into one wherein your partner is expecting monogamy and you cheat, you're a sleaze and it's all on your head, not anyone else's.

Oops, I just kinda skimmed the thread reading a few random posts.
Thanks for clearing that up for me

	28-07-2002 22:15									#107
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd My rather unpopular view is that it's a bad idea to have sex with someone you aren't in love with and don't see yourself possibly ending up with. Yes, that means I would turn down a one night stand with the hottest girl at my university. *prepares to be flamed*

I won't flame you, but I sure wish you'd pass her my number...

	28-07-2002 23:07									#108
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Boris

I agree with everything you said



SERB

I am no saint but monogomy is expected by my wife and I. Its part of our mature commited relationship. Sometimes there are temptations but when you have something special, you don't even seriously consider jeopordizing it just to rub body parts with someone else.

Its pretty simple really. I made a promise to her. She made a promise to me . We keep our promises. No exceptions or rationalizations. None .

	28-07-2002 23:52									#109
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quote: Bullshit.

Serb, you're a nitwit. You are here talking like you know all about the female anatomy, yet you haven't even heard of the huge number of studies involving women who can't have orgasms during intercourse.

Most women don't have orgasms from vaginal stimulation. Most of them get orgasms when the clitoris is stimulated — whether or not they are having vaginal intercourse. So, if a woman's clitoris is not being stimulated, she may not have an orgasm.

Nuff said.

	29-07-2002 00:59									#110
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quote: Most women don't have orgasms from vaginal stimulation. Most of them get orgasms when the clitoris is stimulated — whether or not they are having vaginal intercourse. So, if a woman's clitoris is not being stimulated, she may not have an orgasm.

Marcus, that's just the two types of female orgasm.

It doesn't mean that if a girl is clitoris stimulated she won't have an orgasm.

It's just that the procedures are different

	29-07-2002 02:12									#111
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but she won't get an orgasm from intercourse. That was what I was saying.

It is extremely rare to give a woman a clitoral orgasm during intercourse, without her or you using your hands (or other means).

	29-07-2002 02:20									#112
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I thought you were talking about women having orgasms and satysfying them in general.
My bad.

	29-07-2002 02:30									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus but she won't get an orgasm from intercourse. That was what I was saying. It is extremely rare to give a woman a clitoral orgasm during intercourse, without her or you using your hands (or other means).

I agree that intercourse alone rarely triggers a female orgasm without other stimulii

Edited to remove a comment as I had misread what saint M. was saying

	29-07-2002 03:43									#114
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quote: Listen Imran, I don't like you, you don't like me, perhaps we should stop this bs? But, you are completely wrong. I’m not trying to find out who is more responsible in this situation. I just said that guy is responsible also.

Who said I never liked you? Like Jon said, why do we have to make it personal?

And no, the guy ISN'T responsible at all for his parter's cheating. As Boris said, if the partner isn't being satisfied, she first has to let him know and then leave. There is no excuse for breaking the marriage contract and lying about it if there is no sexual satisfaction.

Oh, and about the other topic of conversation, I'm sure glad my g/f is one of those rarities that can orgasm during vaginal intercourse, solely .

	29-07-2002 09:06									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Serb, you're a nitwit. You are here talking like you know all about the female anatomy, yet you haven't even heard of the huge number of studies involving women who can't have orgasms during intercourse. Most women don't have orgasms from vaginal stimulation. Most of them get orgasms when the clitoris is stimulated — whether or not they are having vaginal intercourse. So, if a woman's clitoris is not being stimulated, she may not have an orgasm. Nuff said.

"Bullshit"- It's not my words, but it were words of my girlfreind, when I translated your speech to her.

	29-07-2002 09:11									#116
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 I thought you were talking about women having orgasms and satysfying them in general. My bad.

I thought about the same.

	29-07-2002 10:53									#117
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui And no, the guy ISN'T responsible at all for his parter's cheating. As Boris said, if the partner isn't being satisfied, she first has to let him know and then leave. There is no excuse for breaking the marriage contract and lying about it if there is no sexual satisfaction

So, are you trying tell that it is ok that her husbant is more like to read books then to have sex with his wife? Is it ok that he have satisfaction when they having sex, but he don't satisfy her? Isn't it a bit egoistic? If he done nothing to change this situation, I don't see why he isn't responsible.

	29-07-2002 11:46									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Serb So, are you trying tell that it is ok that her husbant is more like to read books then to have sex with his wife? Is it ok that he have satisfaction when they having sex, but he don't satisfy her? Isn't it a bit egoistic? If he done nothing to change this situation, I don't see why he isn't responsible.

He IS responsible for his failure to satisy her but what she should do is simple:

1. Make him aware of the problem and her needs
2. If it does not get better and is a major issue she should end the relationship

Nothing and I mean nothing makes deceit correct.


Oh and every sex expert and my own personal experience is that most women do not experience vaginal orgasm without other stimulii ( although lots have faked them according to the studies). Now if you understand the word "most" you would realize that this would mean " some" do experience them. So either your girlfriend is in the minority or among those that regularly fake--

Lets assume that she is in the minority, this takes nothing away from the validity of the point that " most" women ( ie more than half, the majority) do not experience them. So count yourself as lucky

	29-07-2002 13:38									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber He IS responsible for his failure to satisy her but what she should do is simple: 1. Make him aware of the problem and her needs 2. If it does not get better and is a major issue she should end the relationship Nothing and I mean nothing makes deceit correct.

Agreed.

quote: Lets assume that she is in the minority, this takes nothing away from the validity of the point that " most" women ( ie more than half, the majority) do not experience them. So count yourself as lucky

She is not in the minority (I mean other stimulii )
I just misunderstood Saint Marcus (OmG I just noticed this he is the Saint!!! It's explains a lot). I thought that he mean "some women are unable to have orgasm, no matter how guy is skilled" I translated his words smt like this. She said "bred sobachii" which I could trlanslate only as "bullshit". I misunderstood him, my mistake.

	29-07-2002 14:48									#120
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quote: I agree that intercourse alone rarely triggers a female orgasm without other stimulii but I totally disagree that a female orgasm during intercouse with such additional stimulii is " rare"

geez

read people. please.

I said: It is extremely rare to give a woman a clitoral orgasm during intercourse.

If you can tell me how you can give a woman a clitoral orgasm during intercourse without additional stimuli I'd like to know.

Hell, there are even plenty of women who can't even get a clitoral orgasm by themselves, though those cases are rare. However, it is quite common for women not to experience vaginal orgasms at all. Studies also show that on average, women only get orgasms about 30% of the time while having intercourse. If your girlfriend gets off more easily, she's lucky.