30-07-2002 12:08									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten I wouldn't go this far. Russia will still probably maintain a presence east of the Urals and in Central Asia. The eastern portions of Russia, however, are going to fall if East Asian countries decide they want them. Economically and demographically, Russia is already beaten in these areas. Militarily, the balance is shifting even as we speak. I'm relatively confident that Mongolia and the Russian Maritime Territories will fall back into the Chinese orbit. Beyond that, it's hard to tell what is going to happen. If Japan became more aggressive, it could probably assert control over the island north of Hokkaido and maybe even expand into Kamchatka. And who knows how much territory China would want to take? Russia can't do much about it, besides using Serb's nuclear weapons, but does Russia really want to start a nuclear exchange in order to keep some sparsely populated forest land? I don't think so...

I could easily imagine chinese agression as you explain it, but Japanese... i dunno about that. Japanese agression would be very alarming to the US, who control like half of the Japanese military, due to wwii

	30-07-2002 12:17									#32
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-1 / 10 for all of you.

	30-07-2002 12:21									#33
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quote: Russia can't do much about it, besides using Serb's nuclear weapons, but does Russia really want to start a nuclear exchange in order to keep some sparsely populated forest land? I don't think so...

You know very little about Russians boy, you know even less about Siberia if you call it a "sparsely populated forest land".

It is said in Russian Deffence doctrine (btw, it's a DOCUMENT with accordance with wich military should act in case of war and btw, it was changed not so long ago, after Yougoslavia if I remember correctly)
I don't know exact text, but it's smt like this:
In case of nuclear, biological, chemical or MASSIVE CONVENTIONAL ATTACK against Russian Federation or its allies, Russian Federation will retaliate against agression with any means, including its NUCLEAR potential". All Asiat countries wich are former SU republics are members of "treaty about collective defence" in case of aggression against any country wich is the member of this treaty, all members of aliance should attack agressor.
Case is closed. Go and try something if you have balls.

	30-07-2002 12:22									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Kramerman I could easily imagine chinese agression as you explain it, but Japanese... i dunno about that. Japanese agression would be very alarming to the US, who control like half of the Japanese military, due to wwii

I agree, Japanese aggression is extremely unlikely in the present day. However, I was thinking farther down the road. If Chinese power continues to rise and is matched by a decreasing American commitment to maintaining the Asian status quo, then Japan will be sorely tempted to end its security arrangement with the US and remilitarize in order to protect its interests in Asia. America might welcome this as an easy way to counter China without risking US lives. Twenty years from now, it would not be unthinkable for China and Japan to be the two major players in East Asia, jockeying with each other for power in the region while carving up the eastern territories of a no longer relevant Russia. This is all conjecture on my part, but I don't think that it is impossible or even unlikely.

	30-07-2002 12:26									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. President -1 / 10 for all of you.

Just read what typed on picture with big red guy, I've posted on first page. Do it and let us keep spaming.

	30-07-2002 12:27									#36
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Serb,

China doesn't even have to attack Russia to take control of the Russian Far East. All they have to do is keep allowing Chinese to immigrate illegally into Russian territory, which they are already doing. Once the territories are predominantly Chinese, the people can declare themselves to be independent and China can annex them. Don't think that this is possible? It's how Texas became part of the United States...

Hope you liked that, Kramerman.

	30-07-2002 12:30									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten I agree, Japanese aggression is extremely unlikely in the present day. However, I was thinking farther down the road. If Chinese power continues to rise and is matched by a decreasing American commitment to maintaining the Asian status quo, then Japan will be sorely tempted to end its security arrangement with the US and remilitarize in order to protect its interests in Asia. America might welcome this as an easy way to counter China without risking US lives. Twenty years from now, it would not be unthinkable for China and Japan to be the two major players in East Asia, jockeying with each other for power in the region while carving up the eastern territories of a no longer relevant Russia. This is all conjecture on my part, but I don't think that it is impossible or even unlikely.

I see. Interesting. Indonesia is another potential East Asia power. I also hope Australia will be one, but who knows... i like Australia for some reason.
I read somewhere that US citizens, on average, spend $5000 bucks apiece in their taxes for protecting people over seas i.e. Korea, Tiawan, Japan, former Yugo, etc. Thats sick. I know we cant just pull out, but I wish we could. We only get kicked in the teeth by many of these places anyway, after trying to help them. Its like every other day when i turn on BBC news there are rioters somewhere protesting US presence.... sheeesh!

Drake Tungsten- i like your signature line - though i dont really like denise miller....

	30-07-2002 12:33									#38
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quote: It's how Texas became part of the United States...

Its also how texas will go back to Mexico . And im only half joking...

quote: -1 / 10 for all of you.

What does this mean?

	30-07-2002 12:37									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Kramerman Its also how texas will go back to Mexico . And im only half joking...

I don't consider this to be a joke either. It's certainly possible in the long term, if illegal immigration from Mexico continues the way it has been.

quote: i like your signature line - though i dont really like denise miller....

He has his moments...

	30-07-2002 12:38									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Serb, China doesn't even have to attack Russia to take control of the Russian Far East. All they have to do is keep allowing Chinese to immigrate illegally into Russian territory, which they are already doing. Once the territories are predominantly Chinese, the people can declare themselves to be independent and China can annex them. Don't think that this is possible? It's how Texas became part of the United States...

Silly boy ,as I said you don't know Russians or Russian constitution. Far east declared independence?

Btw, illegal immigrants don't have ANY civil rights by definition, because their presence in country is ILLEGAL.

quote: Hope you liked that, Kramerman.

You mean that a lot of Chinese live in Texas?
Btw, how many millions Chinese people live in USA today? I guess if your scenario was realistic, then it is USA who should worry about this, not Russia. Because in USA there are much more Chinese people then in Russia.

	30-07-2002 12:44									#41
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But Chinese people in America assimilate into American culture and become Americans. Most make a concious decision to do so when the leave China. Illegal Chinese immigrants in Siberia don't, to the best of my knowledge, assimilate into Russian culture or have the desire to. They still consider themselves Chinese; they are just in Russia to find work. What happens when there are more Chinese folks in the Russian Far East than Russians? Will the Chinese still want to be ruled from Moscow, thousands of miles away, or will they want to be controlled by their homeland?

	30-07-2002 12:56									#42
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Again dude,
you don't know Russians if you think that it's easy task to wipe us out from our own lands. It's OUR lands we lived there for generations. Anyone who want to drive us out from our lands has only one way to do so- WAR. And one more thing we NEVER lose deffensive wars. NEVER. [Waving Russian Flag]
You want to check it once again? Fine, just try something. [Waving Russian flag again]

Have a nice day

	30-07-2002 13:04									#43
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Sorry, I forget to laugh about this :

quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten But Chinese people in America assimilate into American culture and become Americans.

Is it the reason why you could find China town in every American city where Chinese immigrants live?
You mean, they are assimilated into American culture, they broke all ties with their Motherland and that's why they live in China towns. Great.

	30-07-2002 13:09									#44
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Not every Chinese-American lives in a China town. I think that China towns are populated mostly by recent immigrants (those who haven't assimilated yet). Non-Asians live in China towns as well. Wouldn't expect you to know any of that, however.

	30-07-2002 13:09									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Again dude, you don't know Russians if you think that it's easy task to wipe us out from our own lands. It's OUR lands we lived there for generations. Anyone who want to drive us out from our lands has only one way to do so- WAR. And one more thing we NEVER lose deffensive wars. NEVER. [Waving Russian Flag] You want to check it once again? Fine, just try something. [Waving Russian flag again] Have a nice day

ROFL!!!
Is that a Soviet flag you are waving, or just a Russian Federation flag?
So are you two gonna be arguing about this all night (or mmorning or day or whatever time it is where you are argueing from)? Very entertaining. Good arguements on both sides.

	30-07-2002 13:12									#46
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If Korea ever becomes united again, it's sheer economic strength could make it a formidible power in the region again as well.

	30-07-2002 13:20									#47
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Economically, a unified Korea would be a power. Militarily, however, Korea would have problems due to the horrible hand played to it by geography. Korea is neatly trapped between China and Japan; modern weaponry only makes this position more dangerous. Korea will have to walk a tight rope to avoid get embroiled in a larger war if hostilities ever break out in East Asia.

	30-07-2002 13:24									#48
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I do expect Japan to retake Sakahalin soon though, as it is rightful Japanese territory. Japan gained it after the Russo-Japanese war of 1905 and only lost because the western imperialist powers wanted Japan to give it back.

	30-07-2002 13:27									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Economically, a unified Korea would be a power. Militarily, however, Korea would have problems due to the horrible hand played to it by geography. Korea is neatly trapped between China and Japan; modern weaponry only makes this position more dangerous. Korea will have to walk a tight rope to avoid get embroiled in a larger war if hostilities ever break out in East Asia.

Very true Drake, one thing I have always admired about Korea is that despite it's horrible geographic conditions, it has always maintained it's own unique culture, seperate of China and Japan.

	30-07-2002 13:27									#50
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I think they'll get it back eventually. The Russians aren't going to give it back, most likely, and the Japanese aren't going to take it back in the near future considering their aversion to military action. It'll probably still be a while, but it will happen.

	30-07-2002 13:35									#51
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider I do expect Japan to retake Sakahalin soon though, as it is rightful Japanese territory. Japan gained it after the Russo-Japanese war of 1905 and only lost because the western imperialist powers wanted Japan to give it back.

Learn some history boy. First of all historicaly it's Russian territory. It was settled by Russians long ago. Japanese took HALF (HALF not entire island) of Sakhalin in 1905.
If you think that it's rightful Japanese territory only because they took it from Russians after our defeat in Russo-Japanese war, then EXPLAINE to me why do you think that itsn't rightful Russian territory NOW. Because we took it back in absolutely the same way as it was took from us at the first place. MILITARY. We return South of Sakhalin and Kuril islands after we won war with Japan in 1945.
Your claims about "western imperialist powers who wanted Japan to give it back" is total bullsh*t.

	30-07-2002 13:50									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Not every Chinese-American lives in a China town. I think that China towns are populated mostly by recent immigrants (those who haven't assimilated yet). Non-Asians live in China towns as well.

So, does it means that Chinese-Americans are assimilated by American culture or not?
And btw, why do you think that Chinese who live in Russia couldn't be assimilated by Russian culture, at least to the same scale as they could be assimilated by an American?

quote: Wouldn't expect you to know any of that, however.

However, I expected that you will respond with smt like this.

	30-07-2002 14:15									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Kramerman ROFL!!! Is that a Soviet flag you are waving, or just a Russian Federation flag?

All Right people!!! Don't anybody move!!! This is the thread jack, everybody stay quiet and no one will get hurt.

This time it will be this one, a flag of Russian Federation and the Flag of Russian Empire scince 1693:

	30-07-2002 14:44									#54
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quote: And one more thing we NEVER lose deffensive wars. NEVER.

Has 1917 been somehow erased from your consciousness, Serb ?

quote: You know very little about Russians boy, you know even less about Siberia if you call it a "sparsely populated forest land". It is said in Russian Deffence doctrine (btw, it's a DOCUMENT with accordance with wich military should act in case of war and btw, it was changed not so long ago, after Yougoslavia if I remember correctly) I don't know exact text, but it's smt like this: In case of nuclear, biological, chemical or MASSIVE CONVENTIONAL ATTACK against Russian Federation or its allies, Russian Federation will retaliate against agression with any means, including its NUCLEAR potential". All Asiat countries wich are former SU republics are members of "treaty about collective defence" in case of aggression against any country wich is the member of this treaty, all members of aliance should attack agressor. Case is closed. Go and try something if you have balls.

China has nukes too, in case you've forgotten. I don't think they'll hesitate to use them if you do first.

	30-07-2002 15:04									#55
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus Has 1917 been somehow erased from your consciousness, Serb ?

Refresh my memory please.

I'm grand-garandchild of colonel of Red army who participated in civil war, so I consider that my ancesters won civil war.
If you think that any other country could handle a war with 14 foreign countries and half of its own population at the same time, better then Soviet Russia in 1917-1921, then go ahead and name this country to me. We lost only Ukraine to Germans, but we return it soon.
I don't see how we lost civil war and foreign intervention. Explain please what do you mean.

quote: China has nukes too, in case you've forgotten. I don't think they'll hesitate to use them if you do first.

Their Nuclear potential is no match for our... yet. But, I can assure you, that we'll prefer to die deffending our country, then to surrender part of it to anybody.
So it will be big bada-boom.

	30-07-2002 15:31									#56
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quote: ...because Russia will probably equal the EU in power

the question is will Russia get slighty stronger or will the EU get sightly weaker

quote: Their Nuclear potential is no match for our... yet. But, I can assure you, that we'll prefer to die deffending our country, then to surrender part of it to anybody. So it will be big bada-boom.

if China and Russia screw the world for everyone else I dont think anyone would be against killing every last one of them.

	30-07-2002 15:31									#57
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quote: Refresh my memory please. I'm grand-garandchild of colonel of Red army who participated in civil war, so I consider that my ancesters won civil war. If you think that any other country could handle a war with 14 foreign countries and half of its own population at the same time, better then Soviet Russia in 1917-1921, then go ahead and name this country to me. We lost only Ukraine to Germans, but we return it soon. I don't see how we lost civil war and foreign intervention. Explain please what do you mean.

I'm referring to WWI. You had your asses kicked big time.

	30-07-2002 15:36									#58
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they got spanked in WW2 as well. winter saved them.

	30-07-2002 16:00									#59
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus I'm referring to WWI. You had your asses kicked big time.

Do you have any proof?
I dare to say otherwise. Not only our asses weren't kicked, but we also kicked a lot of foreign asses. Asses who intervented our country, but were beaten and run like beaten dogs.

	30-07-2002 16:04									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Space05us they got spanked in WW2 as well. winter saved them.

Oh great, a glorious representative of glorious American education system arrived.
During our history, we've won a dozen times more wars then you ever have.