07-08-2002 07:14									#181
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quote: We had this case on a NES in CFC. Napoleon tried to blackmail the Tzar of Russia but the Tzar posted the screenshot of the PM Napoleon sent : It made a big scandal but it was fun

I don't think we'll need such measures. A good system prevents, not punishes. In any case, I'm going to see if I can craft up a little better system. That distortion thing is something I definitely wouldn't have factored in on my own.

	07-08-2002 07:15									#182
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Hmm...I just suspect that having a Director of Infrastructure added might diminish the fields of for example the Director of Industry and Economy etc... a bit too much.

Could someone copy/paste the Director-list again?

	07-08-2002 07:16									#183
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quote: Originally posted by Juliennew I hope this kind of blackmail would be reported by the victim !! He has only to make a screenshot of his PM and to make the thread to make sure.

so then we could impeach or even ban ( ) the corrupt director? if there is severe punishment, then i'd support this idea.

i'd rather this director to be an independent rather than someone affiliated with a party though, to avoid corruption

	07-08-2002 07:18									#184
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Commissioner - plays the game, overseas the Ministers
Alpha Talent - Commissioner's Aide, does everything Commissioner forgets
Minister of Exploration and Intelligence - initial exploration (scoutrovers and patrols) and probe teams
Minister of Terraforming and Colonization - controls colony pods and terraformers
Minister of Energy and Industry - SP's, base structures, crawlers, worker placings, energy, .....
Minister of Research - labs rate, research goal
Minister of Social Engineering - Energy rate, social engineering
Minister of Foreign Affairs - contacts with other factions, planetary counsil stuff
Minister of Defence- designs new units, controls military units.
Librarian- Tells the story

	07-08-2002 07:19									#185
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quote: Originally posted by Juliennew I hope this kind of blackmail would be reported by the victim !! He has only to make a screenshot of his PM and to make the thread to make sure.

I'm thinking of more subtle coercion... for example in the turn chat the discussion could go something like this:

[Infrastructure] I think we need some missile infiltrators, though of course it's up to the Director of Defense

[Defense] Damn right it is. I'm building infantry instead.

[Infrastructure] Well I have the precendence, and if we can't have proper units I might as well have a tree farm, it'll be better in the long run anyway.

[Defense] Okay okay, let's build those damn infiltrators then.

[Infrastructure] I mysteriously changed my mind about tree farms, we don't need them after all.

... or something like that. It's not a clear cut scandal, becuase the director of Infrastructure does have the legal right to decide whether to build the tree farm or not. This is why I advocate a separate director for the job.

	07-08-2002 07:25									#186
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it's not infastructure's buisiness to worry about "missle infiltrators"

a director of infastructure is different from the director of industry and energy.

	07-08-2002 07:27									#187
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My suggestion.

* * *

Commissioner - plays the game, oversees the Directorate
Alpha Talent - Commissioner's Aide, does everything Commissioner forgets
Director of Exploration and Intelligence - initial exploration (scoutrovers and patrols) and probe teams
Director of Terraforming and Colonization - controls colony pods and terraformers
Director of Energy and Industry - SP's, base structures, crawlers, worker placings, energy, .....
Director of Science and Technology- labs rate, research goal
Director of Social Engineering - Energy rate, social engineering
Director of Foreign Affairs - contacts with other factions, planetary counsil stuff
Director of Defence- designs new units, controls military units.
Director of Base Production - Regulates which directors have precedence over production queues
(Librarian- Tells the story... do we need this guy?)

	07-08-2002 07:27									#188
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Let's get a director of infrastructure, I think we can be confident in the fact that he won't blackmail for the sake of a good game.

	07-08-2002 07:28									#189
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Director of Base Production - Regulates which directors have precedence over production queues
I concur

	07-08-2002 07:29									#190
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quote: Originally posted by TKG it's not infastructure's buisiness to worry about "missle infiltrators"

Damn right it's not, that's why I'd like it to be in the rules. Anyway, I think that the name "Director of Infrastructure" is misleading anyway, because infrastructure and base facilities are basically the same thing (under the Director of Energy and Industry).

	07-08-2002 07:33									#191
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And perhaps the director could make polls to ask wich types of building/units will have priority during peacetime and the ones during wartime. It will serve as a guideline for him. And as I said earlier, if the people isn't happy with the job done, he won't be reelected.

	07-08-2002 07:35									#192
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1. Director of Base Production - Regulates which directors have precedence over production queues

Sounds good. Then again, now we have something like four, five people deciding what to build. I think that's just too much. But then again, how do we strike a balance between people having too much power and the bureaucracy slowing things down? Building and controlling a democratic nation is difficult indeed.

2. (Librarian- Tells the story... do we need this guy?)

We could drop it out from the Director list, they are volunteers.

	07-08-2002 07:38									#193
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quote: And perhaps the director could make polls to ask wich types of building/units will have priority during peacetime and the ones during wartime. It will serve as a guideline for him. And as I said earlier, if the people isn't happy with the job done, he won't be reelected.

Polling for a guideline and possible build queues (sic!) =

	07-08-2002 07:43									#194
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As the lobbies of the military advisor is far different of the Energy and Industry one, I think a director who takes the final decision is a good idea. Without him, it will be difficult to take strong and final decisions.

	07-08-2002 08:13									#195
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quote: Originally posted by Kassiopeia Sounds good. Then again, now we have something like four, five people deciding what to build. I think that's just too much. But then again, how do we strike a balance between people having too much power and the bureaucracy slowing things down? Building and controlling a democratic nation is difficult indeed.

In practise, there wouldn't be 4-5 different lobbyists for every build, how likely is it that you have a legitimate need for a colony pod, special project, military unit and a probe team at the same time? Besides the Director of Miltary is not necessarily militaristic... he might very well be in facour of smaller military and hence require nothing at all. Same goes for other directors. So conflicts and bureocracy aren't a problem in my opinion, as the "final word" of Director of Base Production only applies to a small fraction of bases.

Most of the time he might actually be out of work, as there are not necessarily any new builds to decide every turn. But that kind of balances the fact that he practically has the final word on overall strategy...

	07-08-2002 19:27									#196
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i asked about what they did in the civ3dg in the chat, and they said basically that they decide based on whether they're in a war or not. not very helpful . i believe the final decision there went to the city planning advisor.

i'm for a director of base production. do we agree?

	07-08-2002 19:41									#197
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I'm against director/minister of infrastucture. but if you name it something else, it's OK.

	07-08-2002 20:53									#198
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Um, whatever is decided, can we please still have a Minister of Base Production of some kind? I've already nominated myself, you see.

In doing so I was hoping this position would be kind of a mediator between the many disputing Ministers who want various things built. It would be more of a negotiation position than anything else, and that the Minister would choose the build queues based on the various demands, and submit them for public approval, with small alterations if necessary.

	07-08-2002 21:09									#199
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or how about assigning a governor to each base, and let him decide what to build, based on the desires of the ministers?

	07-08-2002 21:12									#200
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maybe, but we'd need a lot of people. we wouldn't have enought people willing to do it.

	07-08-2002 22:30									#201
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IMHO there isn't any need for an infrastructure director of there's a director for Economy/Energy/Industry. Can't the various directors discussing among themselves what to build? Besides, I suppose citizen polls will generally decide what will be built. If a director doesn't listen to the citizens, he won't be re-elected.

If we would have enough participants though, I would love the idea of governors.

	07-08-2002 23:07									#202
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or maybe if we have a large faction (in the game) maybe 1 governor for 4 bases (or some thingg)