30-08-2002 04:32									#271
	Got spare money?

right I am afraid I am now leaving the P4 because I now relise I have a closer tie to the CCCP.

edit: made minor modifactions to spelling

Last edited by rendelnep on 30-08-2002 at 05:02

	30-08-2002 04:59									#272
	Got spare money?

meh. oh well. sorry to see you go, but next time don't get our hopes up

BTW, there are only 3 C's in CCCP . also you can't say CCCCP party, because the "P" stands for party.

One more question: if you "have a closer tie to the CCCP" then why would you join its EXACT OPPOSITE?

	30-08-2002 05:10									#273
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no it's exact oppisite would be the gunhoers of the ACE you are just the the more moderate form of the same idealogies with less influences of socialism not that you would care to admit it.

	30-08-2002 10:24									#274
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by rendelnep no it's exact oppisite would be the gunhoers of the ACE you are just the the more moderate form of the same idealogies with less influences of socialism not that you would care to admit it.

That's rather a warped view of things. Just because we're primarily pacifistic doesn't give us more in common with them than it does ACE. Especially considering their complete lack of understanding of turn advantage.

	30-08-2002 17:43									#275
	Support Apolyton

quote: Our party stands for economic and technological progress. Thus our keywords are Discover and Build. The way to reach these goals are equal chances and free education among other things.

From the party manifesto. Equal opportunities and (almost) free education are economically left (= social-democratic) themes. So I agree with Rendelnep we have things in common with CDC. The biggest difference is we don't take things to the extreme. We aren't idealists with a simple worldview in other words. CCCP wants to divide all property equally among all people, making them somewhat happy in this life, but at the cost of a stagnating technological progress. The Capital Party, their opposite, doesn't want a social security system providing equal opportunities or education at all. They somehow believe people will always fulfill their potential and become happy if they just want to, no matter how the odds are against them at birth. P4 is the middleway. Our goal is also to make people happy, but we realize the way to do it is not as simple as the CCCP or CP present. P4 realizes the more advanced technology, the more and the better the basic needs of all human beings can be fulfilled. Thus we create a knowledge society. A free market system, but unlike the CP with government support for anyone who wants to study, also the poor people. That way everyone can fulfill their potential and reach happiness, and our society becomes eudaimonic in the end.

I hope no one will defect to the Capital Party after this speech, but if P4 ever becomes a right-wing party, solely devoted to free market economics and nothing else, I think I will leave myself to the Scientific Axis.

	30-08-2002 19:19									#276
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Well, I would defect........except that I believe in the equal chances stuff, along with a limited social security system. (ie. No dole bludgers thanks!)

	30-08-2002 19:22									#277
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Maniac but if P4 ever becomes a right-wing party, solely devoted to free market economics and nothing else, I think I will leave myself to the Scientific Axis.

good point. we use free market economics as a means of furthering science, and probably if i hadn't been in this party when TSA was formed, i would've joined it too.

	30-08-2002 19:28									#278
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

i believe in progress and prosparity in a free world!

thats all

	30-08-2002 19:47									#279
	Get a bigger avatar today!

TKG, thanks for your party loyalty in that case.

Archaic, the goal of the social security system would be to get people at work as soon as possible. For example, if many people are fired in a certain sector, and there is no more need for people with their degree, our aim would be to re-educate them, with government support, and reinsert them in the system as soon as possible, not to support them with tax money until they die.

	30-08-2002 19:52									#280
	Support Apolyton

Oh, yes, yes, I know that. The problem is that often, that's exactly what happens. You get this large number of long term unemployed who can't be bothered finding a job, or who refuse to be retrained.

	30-08-2002 19:56									#281
	Got spare money?

Well, if they refuse to be retrained and educated in any of the programs offered, or refuse to accept any of the jobs offered, they don't get paid anymore. A simple rule. I agree left governments should be a lot stricter with such rules.

	30-08-2002 20:37									#282
	Inflate your Upload Space

I've responded to some of the points Maniac raised in the Merchant Exchange thread.

Since my reply deals more with inter-party issues than economics, and since you guys have a very interesting social policy debate going on in here, I've posted it in the EDP thread.

	01-09-2002 19:19									#283
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

*Adds the P4 standard disclaimer to his sig*
I'm going to need it a lot it seems. Raising hackles is so much fun, don't you agree?

	01-09-2002 19:27									#284
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

ok, perfect. now put it at the top, and make it bigger

	01-09-2002 22:22									#285
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I'm glad you added that disclaimer, even though the better solution would simply be to stop insulting ad hominem. It would improve your health as well! No more problems with colds.

Last edited by Maniac on 02-09-2002 at 00:46

	01-09-2002 23:39									#286
	Inflate your Upload Space

I should have had that in place when I argued with Pandemoniak.

	02-09-2002 00:27									#287
	Inflate your Upload Space

guys about PB`s shall we vote on the issue?

	02-09-2002 00:29									#288
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i vote

	02-09-2002 00:47									#289
	Put an end to popups!

I ABSTAIN

	02-09-2002 00:52									#290
	Inflate your Upload Space

I NEA

EDIT: changed it to NEA

	02-09-2002 00:56									#291
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Err DBTS you don't have to NAY if you don't want to. I think there are other P4 members who are in favour of PBs.

	02-09-2002 01:05									#292
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

no we dont really need PB`s but i like the power and MAYBE this will change some time in the future but with julliennew and tacmar death we only need the votes from TBB and archaic

	02-09-2002 01:13									#293
	Got spare money?

My answer really depends on how I view this game:

If I think as "what's most cost-efficient" I would vote against PBs.

If I roleplay as a politician I would vote in favour of PBs, as I believe in the MAD-principle making sure no one uses them. Unfortunately the AI does't get that principle.

So, how do I need to vote people? As a gameplayer or a roleplayer?

	02-09-2002 01:19									#294
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

you need to vote NAY. not only are they not necessary, but they are a waste of minerals, and it's damaging our reputation as a party.

	02-09-2002 02:56									#295
	Suffering from ads?

I vote NEA. Normally IRL I would vote Yay but the AI doesn't get the MAD concept.

	02-09-2002 04:26									#296
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

3 votes. ignoring julien and TacMar as we are, since they are dead, that's majority. Measure to build PBs fails.

for future reference, will internal votes be passed by majority, or the more than 66%/less than 33% way (as in constitution)?

	02-09-2002 12:32									#297
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Just FYI, I abstained.

And I haven't exactly been insulting ad hominem Maniac. For that, my insult would have to be the basis of my rebuttal. No, I'm just being plain insulting. It's part of my nature, and I can't exactly help it. I don't tend to say something insulting though unless either that person has insulted me (lucky22), or I blow my top at what seems a completly uninformed remark.

quote: Originally posted by TKG ok, perfect. now put it at the top, and make it bigger

Is this to your liking? ^_~

	02-09-2002 18:42									#298
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

yes

PB vote - Will we build a PB?
Maniac-ABSTAIN
DBTS-NAY
TKG-NAY
Juliennew-DEAD
Archaic-ABSTAIN
TacticalMarine-DEAD
The Bloody Baro-NAY

	02-09-2002 19:35									#299
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Then I shall scrap it from the policy and about voting just majority is good by me

	02-09-2002 19:37									#300
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

oh, and FYI...

Merge with EDP?
Maniac-YEA
DBTS-YEA
TKG-YEA
Juliennew-DEAD
Archaic-YEA
TacticalMarine-DEAD
The Bloody Baro-YEA

adam?