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CyberGnu
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of the Virtual Serengeti
Apr 1999
time: 05:21
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Asher: Just give up on BlackIce. He doesn't read your posts anyway, just copy-pastes and calls them "opinions". It is a waste of your time.
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Not necessarily. Can you honestly say that current schools are tailer to girls and girls alone?
Right now it's a hybrid in most places. At least that's how it was when I was in California and up in Canada. I certainly didn't have a problem with the quality of education, I'm in higher learning and not a tradeschool like blackice says guys go to now. |
Well, in Sweden it seems the first couple of grades are tailored to boys, mainly because boys of that age require so much more attention. So it isn't so much a question of learning differences, just behaviour differences.
In higher grades (7-9 and high school) the teaching seems to be tailored to girls. I can't say I have any scientific backing for this, except that statistically girls in theoretical programs are getting better and better grades as compared to boys. You see what I mean?
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I'm one of those people who'd be harmed by going to an all-boys school. I never played, or had a desire to play, school sports, and much of my friends are female. |
Oh, I'm not advocating different schools. I'm saying that maybe we should consider gender-specific classes (if the four group approach is out), within the normal school structure. Especially for grades 1-3.
BTW, when I went to grades 7-9 we had separate classes in sports. As a guy who doens't like ballsports much, I don't think this affected me much, but pretty much every single girl I've talked to agreed that this was a great thing...
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I feel that Horsie is closing off options to his kids by sending them to a school where they only have male classmates and where school sports are mandatory. |
Amen. 
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blackice
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Canada where else...
Sep 2000
time: 00:21
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Um. Look around on a modern college campus. There's quite a few back to school moms, especially in these condensed summer terms... |
So once again we weed out Dr. Asher’s fact from IMO diatribe.
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Blackice, there's 51% females in Canada, 49% males. 54% females at a university isn't something to cry about like you're doing. |
I don’t remember crying about it? I do remember posting links and studies done by prominent people in the field that state those numbers and that in fact less males each year are going that route. Try this one on for size Dr. Asher, you must know this man with all your books on the subject you have published. 
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Tom Mortenson, a senior scholar at the Pell Center for the Study of Opportunity in Higher Education, a Washington-based think tank, and a higher education policy analyst for Postsecondary Education Opportunity, based in Iowa, says that in his 30-year career devoted to eliminating gender imbalances in education, he has witnessed a troubling shift.
"Right around 1990, it hit me that girls had made extraordinary progress between 1970 and 1990," he says. "For me, it was one of those 180-degree reversals: Now I believe that boys are the ones with a gender disadvantage in education. They are where the girls were 25 years ago."
According to the U.S. Department of Education, American girls have been ahead of boys in reading in studies for every year on record, beginning in 1969. But as girls move ahead in math and science, the reverse gender gap, which has shown up on dozens of local and national studies, becomes all the more pronounced.
(The most pressing and intractable educational gaps in the United States are still undeniably those of race and socioeconomic status. American students from lower socioeconomic backgrounds are particularly vulnerable to educational discrimination and underachievement: On the PISA study, American students recorded the highest gap out of all participating countries between students in the top and bottom quarter of wealth.) |
Of course he does not know what you do right Dr. Asher
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It's an obvious reflection of the modern idea of the career woman, and many of the aging baby boomer moms are going back to school now that their kids are grown up. Is it any surprise we see an increase in enrollment? |
And you can post a link to this fact? Considering it takes two incomes in today’s modern era and “single” moms dominate the scene I find what you say completely unfounded in reality.
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Your studies and links have only shown that more and more women are going to college in this new day & age of the career woman attitude. Your same figures neglect the fact that male enrollment is also up! You're ignoring critical facts just so you can try to make a point, and I don't even think you realize it. |
No dr. Asher the links you have admitted not to read yet endlessly fail to entertain us with your “opinions” on them  They say a lot more than that if you read them you would not have made such a waste of time statement to respond to. Male enrollment is up and a link to that is where?
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Hey, you see my point. |
You mean you believe it is a mass male conspiracy to stop women from enrolling in engineering? No I think it is moronic and I typed it for humor.
As for the rest I think you are delusional, totally delusional. You have no idea what you are talking about, again and continue to post your “opinions” as facts. Ignore the facts and continue to post dictatorial diatribe. Give it up man.
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You're such an insightful person. |
Most people that know me well same the same thing, thanks for noticing. 
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Do you live your life by stereotypes, |
Not at all I face the real world with real thought you?
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or just your arguments? |
I have something to say here that is meaningful you?
Dr. Asher as I said before you need to dump the boards and take the time to develop yourself, sincerely you need it. I say that in a nice way.
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:21
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Re: your continuing comments about facts, see my post that followed the one you just replied to.
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Originally posted by blackice
According to the U.S. Department of Education, American girls have been ahead of boys in reading in studies for every year on record, beginning in 1969. But as girls move ahead in math and science, the reverse gender gap, which has shown up on dozens of local and national studies, becomes all the more pronounced. |
Isn't it funny how they neglect to mention the actual numbers, just so they can promote their cause better? I don't buy everything thrown at me, blackice, just because some guy is telling me something is happening it's meaningless unless he has some real numbers for me.
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Male enrollment is up and a link to that is where? |
http://www.ncpa.org/iss/edu/2002/pd062502c.html
Nevermind the take of the study it has (it's pretty much the same as yours), since it is in fact the EXACT same study you cited earlier. This report mentions numbers and other facts, such as:
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The number of male college graduates has increased much more slowly, to 529,000. |
I appreciate how they're trying to slant it with a "much more slowly" addition there, since they aren't even talking about rate of change or give previous figures. But there you have it, male enrollment is up. It's just that female enrollment is going up faster, which is likely due to the increasing enrollment of baby-boomers going back to school (which tend to be moms who are no longer housewives).
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You mean you believe it is a mass male conspiracy to stop women from enrolling in engineering? No I think it is moronic and I typed it for humor. |
Man...how can you be so slow? Of course I don't believe it's a mass male conspiracy, I was drawing a parallel as to you using that argument to a lesser extent when female enrollment goes up faster than males, it's suddenly all of the school's faults, even though male is going up also...
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You have no idea what you are talking about, again and continue to post your “opinions” as facts. Ignore the facts and continue to post dictatorial diatribe. Give it up man. |
blackice, you're not understanding anything I'm saying. It's obvious. You think you do though, and it's getting really annoying.
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Not at all I face the real world with real thought you? |
You face the real world, so any woman who is in a woodshop class is a "tomboy"? Face it, blackice, you're living by stereotypes, not the real world. It's just that your feeble mind can't handle anything that's not in extreme white or black -- you need shades of gray in your life.
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blackice
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Canada where else...
Sep 2000
time: 00:21
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[quote:
According to the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), the U.S. buys and uses 90% of the world’s supply of Ritalin. Approximately 4 million U.S. children are on Ritalin. Ten to 12% of U.S. boys are being treated with Ritalin. No other nation is following our example. In fact, Sweden banned methylphenidate (Ritalin) in 1968 after reports of widespread abuse.
In addition, with an increase in "outcome-based educational systems" nationwide, it is interesting to also see it being linked to the rise in diagnosis of ADHD. Because of minimum standards children must meet, teachers do not have the time to deal with children that are inattentive and disruptive. This leads to teachers who are eager to suggest that inattentive children show signs of ADHD and should be prescribed Ritalin to improve a child's performance. In an effort not to medicate their children, some parents are searching out schools that tailor to children with attention problems. These programs or schools may not have to meet specific standards of educational measurement.
Because they are more sensitive to neglect than girls, "boys need extra attention," Teicher notes. "And they often get it. Rat mothers lick and groom males more than females. Human mothers hold, hug, cuddle, and rock boys more than girls." Lack of such attention seems to effect the cerebellum, located at the lower back of the brain, an area that deals with eye movements, posture, and control of emotions and attention. That, too, apparently ties in with the overwhelming preponderance of attention deficit and hyperactivity among boys.
This matched the findings of the major research review released by the National Institutes of Health (NIH) in 1998, which acknowledged that behavioral changes as a result of Ritalin use did not translate into significant "improvements in academic skills or social achievement." On the other hand, numerous studies indicate Ritalin is highly effective in keeping kids quiet.
When a teacher has a classroom of 25 students and five are out of control, any remedy that produces immediate results will likely be welcome. Unfortunately, most students-including those without ADHD-will show improved concentration and some initial improved performance when placed on Ritalin. This has led some to accuse our schools of medicating anyone who regularly misbehaves in class, singling out boys, especially.
Prescriptions for Ritalin nationwide expanded 150 percent in the 1990s. By 1998, Michigan ranked third in the nation in Ritalin use.
"This is not unusual," says David Gaffney, a social worker in Saginaw . "Many children referred to me by schools come with strong insistence the families place the child on medication. When we do convince parents to try other options first, we often hear complaints from the school.
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http://www.educationreport.org/pubs...cle.asp?ID=3218
Speaking of that rather odd the time lines invovled and the target gender. As important is the the people invovled in the diagnosis and the reasons it is prescribed..
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:21
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My sexual preference has nothing to do with co-ed schooling, neither does my desire to not go out and seek women. I don't do it out of not understanding the other sex (most of my friends are women), but because I'm not socially demanding by my nature and I'd rather not spend time and money on girls.
By sending your kids to an all-boys school, you're closing off their options to be anything other than a stereotypical boy. Maybe that's what you want. But don't act like you're doing it out of their self interest, rather than you wanting your sons to be the typical boys.
What if your son wanted to do Ballet? How would his all-boy school treat him? What if he wanted to persue the arts, and concentrate on music/painting/acting? What if he hated sports?
I just saw a TV program today somewhat related to this on the local Access (Education station). They had a boy who loved ballet and a supportive family of it, but he attended a private all-boy school and didn't have any friends there. They all bullied him and made fun of him for doing ballet, and he dreaded ever going to school.
Just be fully aware of what you're sending your kids into. I realize if you're a stereotypical boy, going to a school which rewards being the stereotypical boy was great fun for you, but not everyone is like you...
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SuperSneak
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In the land of the one-eyed
Jun 2000
time: 21:21
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We had boys of all stripes at my school...including card-carrying future queens, leather fags and God knows what else. In fact, some of the more prototypical Neanderthals seemed to really grow emotionally in its environs. We had spiritual retreats, social groups, theater, music, all that touchy feely stuff.
You're talking out of your bung hole, Asher...believe me.
It's not all as backward and stupid as you'd like to assume.
I was president of the drama club, played baseball and football, volunteered, chased girls, rector of the eucharistic ministers...in short, I flourished way more than I would have had I stuck in public school, where the emphasis was more focused on sex than academics.
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:21
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I'm sure not all schools are created equal, Sneak, but if you still chased girls even though you went to an all boy school, this kind of puts a sword through the heart of AH's theory of less distraction, no?
The point is, there's no point to all boys schools. The only rationale I've seen that may hold truth is boys stereotypically learn differently than girls, and an all-boy school would teach them better. But that's only true for a stereotypical boy, and if you're not a stereotypical boy and they only teach in the ways stereotypical boys should learn (why else have an all boy school?), the children would be adversely affected by it.
Meanwhile blackice maintains the public system is infested with bias towards females, but I've certainly never seen the problem. I've read his statistics from fearmongering doctors, but I believe they're the exception to the norm in public schools since I don't know of anyone who complains about it except blackice.
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07-08-2002 23:23
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