06-08-2002 06:59									#1
	Are you for or against capital punishment? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

This is my first non-hypothetical question on the OT forum! Its quite strange, really...

Anyway the question is very simple, do you support capital punishment, and if you want, say why or why not.

EDIT: due to spelling error...

	06-08-2002 07:01									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'm against capitol punishment. Capital punishment is another matter though.

	06-08-2002 07:02									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Im from Texas - enough said....

I also wish the united states used corporal punishment. You flog those rapists dozens of times, and well see if they do it again. I doubt it. Beat criminals like dogs, and you will teach them a lesson they should never forget. The US prison system would probably go from grossly overcrowded to just under capacity in just a matter of a couple of years.

Kman

	06-08-2002 07:03									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I'm against capitol punishment. Capital punishment is another matter though.

hardy har har....

	06-08-2002 07:04									#5
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I'm against capitol punishment. Capital punishment is another matter though.

You'll have to excuse Dinodoc. He's from Mississippi.

	06-08-2002 07:13									#6
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I am for capital punishment and I got a good reason to be. I am sick and tired of murderers being let off with just prison time and the possibility of parole. In Spain, a couple of terrorists got sentenced to 400 - 500 years in prison... hmm.... wouldn't save money just to have them executed? Too bad my country outlawed capital punishment but I am hopeful they will bring it back.

	06-08-2002 07:19									#7
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: wouldn't save money just to have them executed?

Oh dear...the amount of things that you could justify with THAT flawed logic

anyway on with the traditional "Two wrongs dont make a rights" vs. "Eye for an eye"...


Two wrongs dont make a right

more to follow

	06-08-2002 07:19									#8
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Fez I am for capital punishment and I got a good reason to be. I am sick and tired of murderers being let off with just prison time and the possibility of parole. In Spain, a couple of terrorists got sentenced to 400 - 500 years in prison... hmm.... wouldn't save money just to have them executed? Too bad my country outlawed capital punishment but I am hopeful they will bring it back.

Unfortunately in the US it costs more to put criminals to death due to legal costs. I still support the death penalty though.

	06-08-2002 07:20									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I'm for in, in theory. In the US though, the system needs a major overhaul.

	06-08-2002 07:20									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

No, the government's got no right to decide who gets to live and who gets to die.

Besides, it's not a very civilised practice and it's no better then the crimes that it punishes.

	06-08-2002 07:22									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Zulu Elephant Oh dear...the amount of things that you could justify with THAT flawed logic anyway on with the traditional "Two wrongs dont make a rights" vs. "Eye for an eye"... Two wrongs dont make a right more to follow

Well these are murderers we are talking about. And I understand you liberals don't like punishing murderers... well that is your opinion.

My logic is hardly flawed.

quote: No, the government's got no right to decide who gets to live and who gets to die.

A jury does.

	06-08-2002 07:27									#12
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I think that people should die if they offend anyones social values.

That way not only will the prison population go down, but so will the entire country! We could apply it to the world at large, since we (the U.S.) are way tougher than wimpy countries like, FE, Spain. It's eco-friendly!

	06-08-2002 07:29									#13
	Put an end to popups!

Against, when society can be reasonably protected against criminals in other ways (as in indefinite imprisonment).

When you have the choice, and choose to kill, you murder.

	06-08-2002 07:29									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: liberals don't like punishing murderers

A recent poll taken by CNN in association with Reuters found that, when asked "Do you think murderers should be punished?", 98 out of 100 liberals replied "yes". The 2 remaining answered "no" in a very sarcastic voice.

Suffice to say, they are checking their results as they seem to conflict with a statement by Fez.

Fez... *pauses to wonder how best to put it* ... that was a REALLY stupid comment

	06-08-2002 07:37									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Osweld No, the government's got no right to decide who gets to live and who gets to die. Besides, it's not a very civilised practice and it's no better then the crimes that it punishes.

Oh, ok, so the murders can have that right.

The death penalty is a double edged sword, it is both a punishment and a deterant. I am sure the one thing that will ever keep me from killing someone (in the US that is) is the knowlege that I myself will be killed.

quote: I'm for in, in theory. In the US though, the system needs a major overhaul.

This is sad and too true. The system needs to be madfe more efficient and less flawed. To many innocent men, greatly due to racism of juries and such, have been put to death (one is too many). This is the only meritous arguement I know of aginst it.

	06-08-2002 07:37									#16
	Inflate your Upload Space

No because:
1. Our criminal justice system is far from perfect. Killing prisoners off prevents the possibility freeing an innocent person.
2. Someone in prison for life isn't going to hurt the general public (hurting other prisoners is another question entirely, which brings up other reform quesions... ), and such a person isn't given a chance at rehabilitation if the offence warrants it, and the death penalty certainly isn't deterring any crimes, so the only conceivable justification for the death penalty is revenge - a damn idiotic way to run a justice system.

	06-08-2002 07:38									#17
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Oh, ok, so the murders can have that right

That's sort of silly. Osweld never said that. That's why we put murderers in jail...

	06-08-2002 07:38									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Osweld Besides, it's not a very civilised practice and it's no better then the crimes that it punishes.

Err, really? Would you rather have someone you love killed by a depraved murderer and not have any chance to get their affairs in order or say goodbye to their loved ones or otherwise prepare for their own often painful death, or would you rather they had the chance to defend themselves, to prepare themselves in every way etc. before they are put to death after due process in a physically painless manner?

That said, the death penalty should only be used in cases of treason and desertion under fire etc. It's just too costly and the chances of screwing up are way too likely for it to be useful in most capital cases. At least someone who is found to be innocent while serving a life sentence can be released to live the rest of their life as they will.

	06-08-2002 07:43									#19
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I wouldn't apply it to desertion under fire unless the country was fighting a real war...

	06-08-2002 07:47									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Against. Death penalty is too humane.

Forced labor and martial law.

	06-08-2002 08:04									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Frogger quote: Oh, ok, so the murders can have that right That's sort of silly. Osweld never said that. That's why we put murderers in jail...

I meant that if someone thinks they can take your life, then I would love for the government to have the right to take theirs.

Just put yourself in a position that you new you were going to be murdered, and there was nothing you could do about it. You new who, where, when, and how, but by some force you were made to go through with it. Wouldnt you die a more pleasan death with the knowledge that the scum bag bastard that killed you would be put to death instead of living in the motel they call the prison system? Jail is tough, but it aint exactly punishment for a crime on the scale of murder. You get three meals a day, a roof over your head, excersie, reading material, many US prisons now allow inmates internet access! On top of the fact that the prison system is a forum of thugs to share their ideas and experiences. One murderer maybe in their for life, but he would be given tha life to spread his ideas to those inmates that would be getting out. Thats why death row inmates should be isolated from others, if they arent already, and then put to death.

	06-08-2002 08:04									#23
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Frogger I wouldn't apply it to desertion under fire unless the country was fighting a real war...

I wouldn't apply it in just any case either, but if someone ditched out of duty and the result was that others died because of that, or in the place of the deserter, then I think it would be prudent to put the death penalty on the table.

	06-08-2002 08:08									#24
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I guess my response wasn't good enough... well Zulu, I must say you outsmarted me. But I am still for the death penalty take it or leave it. Best way to go for murderers and terrorists is a bullet in the brain... nah too humane... the electric chair is punishment.

	06-08-2002 08:09									#25
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Why should traitors or desserters (if they were responsible for the death of others indirectly, I don't think it warrants anything more than criminal negligence) be subject ot the death penalty, while, say, serial killers shouldn't be?

	06-08-2002 08:20									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Kramerman Wouldnt you die a more pleasan death with the knowledge that the scum bag bastard that killed you would be put to death instead of living in the motel they call the prison system?

Let's get this straight: I'm still dead either way? Then no.

quote: many US prisons now allow inmates internet access!

Yup. You never know who you're talking to online...

quote: On top of the fact that the prison system is a forum of thugs to share their ideas and experiences. One murderer maybe in their for life, but he would be given tha life to spread his ideas to those inmates that would be getting out. Thats why death row inmates should be isolated from others, if they arent already, and then put to death

This is just plain stupid. Murderers will tell other criminals how to murder?

	06-08-2002 08:22									#27
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Ramo Why should traitors or desserters (if they were responsible for the death of others indirectly, I don't think it warrants anything more than criminal negligence) be subject ot the death penalty, while, say, serial killers shouldn't be?

Because those who desert in the heat of battle are usually doing so out of a sense of self-preservation. Their motives are usually more rational than those of civilian murderers. Sikander's applying the old maxim that your troops need to be more afraid of you than they are of the enemy.

	06-08-2002 08:25									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Sikander I wouldn't apply it in just any case either, but if someone ditched out of duty and the result was that others died because of that, or in the place of the deserter, then I think it would be prudent to put the death penalty on the table.

What I mean is that if the country can afford to go without applying the death penalty in desertion cases, it should do so.

If we're fighting a 21st century version of WWI, say, then I see the necessity. If it's a relative cakewalk like all military confrontations NATO countries have been involved in in the last 30 years, then I don't.

	06-08-2002 08:25									#29
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Then again, I don't believe in an authoritarian army.

	06-08-2002 08:27									#30
	Got spare money?

I know that individual cases in the two types of war might be very similar, but the overall urgency of victory is not the same.