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DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:21
Question  Old Post 15-08-2002 04:22
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quote:
Global warmth for U.S. after 9/11 turns to frost Military plans repulse even European allies

OXFORD, England -- On a packed train out of London recently to this historic college town, a young American woman struck up a conversation with her seatmate, a nattily dressed older British man. They chatted amiably about Oxford until she worked up the courage to ask what was weighing on her mind:

''Why,'' she blurted out, ''does everybody hate us?''

The man paused -- but didn't disagree -- before proceeding to enumerate the reasons, from U.S. foreign policies to the seeping influence of American popular culture.

In the shock wave that followed the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, many Americans found themselves asking why so many people in Muslim countries hate the United States. But the anti-American sentiment has turned into a contagion that is spreading across the globe and infecting even the United States' most important allies.


In virulent prose, newspapers criticize the United States. Politicians ferociously attack its foreign policies, especially the Bush administration's plans to attack Iraq. And regular citizens launch into tirades with American friends and visitors.

Here in Britain, the United States' staunchest friend, snide remarks and downright animosity greet many Americans these days. It's not just religious radicals and terrorists who resent the United States anymore.

''Now, it's everyone,'' says Allyson Stewart-Allen, a consultant from California who has lived in London 15 years and heads International Marketing Partners, which advises European companies on how to do business with Americans. The sea change in attitude toward the United States, she says, has ''profoundly'' altered her advice to clients:

She now must counsel them to resist ''taking digs'' at her countrymen.

What happened, many Americans are wondering, to that wave of sympathy and stockpile of global goodwill they encountered after Sept. 11?

''It was squandered,'' says Meghnad Desai, director of the Institute for Global Governance at the London School of Economics and Political Science and a member of the House of Lords.

''America dissipated the goodwill out of its arrogance and incompetence. A lot of people who would never ever have considered themselves anti-American are now very distressed with the United States,'' he says.

Desai and others blame what seems to be a wave of new U.S. policies that they regard as selfish and unilateral, stretching back to President Bush's refusal last year to support the international treaty on global warming.

Many are enraged by Bush's support for steel tariffs and farm subsidies, his refusal to involve the United States in the new international criminal court and what is widely regarded abroad as one-sided support for Israel and its prime minister, Ariel Sharon.

The rash of corporate malfeasance and blanket arrest of terrorism suspects after Sept. 11 further fuels critics, who say the United States preaches democracy, human rights and free enterprise -- but doesn't practice them.

Growing gap with Europe

In a recent article in Policy Review magazine, Robert Kagan, a senior associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in Washington, says the divide between the United States and Europe is getting wider than ever as the continents go their different ways -- one operating on a foreign policy based on unilateralism and coercion, the other on diplomacy and persuasion.

Europeans, he says, have ''come to view the United States simply as a rogue colossus, in many respects a bigger threat to (their) pacific ideals than Iraq or Iran.''

The differences, he says, are deep and likely to endure.

''Why do people attack Americans?'' asks Tiny Waslandek, a social worker in Amsterdam, Netherlands. ''Because they have a big, big mouth and they mind everybody's business.''

Bush's plan to topple Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein is stoking anti-American hostility to bonfire levels. In Germany earlier this month, Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder launched his re-election campaign by denouncing what he derisively called Bush's proposed military ''adventures'' in Iraq. In England, the new head of the Anglican Church and other leading bishops circulated a petition proclaiming that any attack would be illegal and immoral.

Linked to Iraq and Israel

''My sense is that much of the rampant anti-Americanism we see now is very much linked to a war with Iraq and the Israel-Palestine issue,'' says Mary Kaldor, a London-based scholar on international relations.

In the popular Straw Poll BBC radio show July 26, Kaldor debated with Washington Post reporter T. R. Reid whether ''American power is the power of the good.'' She argued that the U.S. role as the sole superpower was a danger to the rest of the world.

At the end of the program, 70% of the studio audience said it agreed with her.

Anti-Americanism is nothing new. Surveys a decade ago in Britain showed that one in four people here are what pollster Robert Worcester, a transplanted Kansan who runs the Market Opinion Research Institute, calls ''culturally anti-American.''

(According to a survey taken in 1989, one in five said they found American accents irritating.)

To some degree, the resentment against the United States is inevitable now that it's the only remaining superpower. Even so, Desai, who says that he is ''very, very pro-America'' and that people forget the United States saved Europe from itself twice in the past century, notes that America has been on top for a long time. ''So what is happening now is not the inevitable result of being No. 1.''

(Desai and many other Europeans give Washington credit for dismantling the hard-line Taliban regime in Afghanistan, which harbored Osama bin Laden and his al-Qaeda terrorist network).

In recent months, polls have shown a less-than subtle change in attitudes toward Americans, U.S. foreign policy and, in particular, the president from Texas. British newspapers reported Thursday that secret polls commissioned by Prime Minister Tony Blair revealed ''spectacular unpopularity'' for Bush among voters here.

In April, the German news magazine Der Spiegel reported that less than half (48%) of Germans consider the United States a guarantor of peace in the world, compared with 62% who did in 1993. Nearly half -- 47% -- rated Americans as aggressive rather than peaceful (34%). And 44% called them superficial.

Meanwhile, in an April poll for the Council on Foreign Relations, based in Washington, Europeans proved highly critical of Bush and what they label his unilateral approach to foreign policy: 85% of Germans, 80% of French, 73% of Britons and 68% of Italians said they believed that the United States is acting in its own interest in the war on terrorism.

Philadelphia transplant Susan Steele, head of Forum management company in London, has noticed that many Europeans have started using the phrase ''that's American,'' which is shorthand, Steele says, for ''not taking anyone else into consideration.''

''People here were truly shocked and horrified by Sept. 11,'' says Marjorie Thompson, an American who runs the consulting group C3I in London. ''But since then, they've come to believe that the United States is using that as an excuse for a unilateral foreign policy, and they're starting to make sweeping anti-American comments.''

'Oppressed opinion'

Even British pop star George Michael and tennis pro Martina Navratilova have taken swings at the United States. Last month, Michael declared he was ''definitely not anti-American'' after receiving criticisms for his new single, Shoot the Dog, which lampooned the relationship between Bush and Blair.

In June, Navratilova, a Czech native who became a U.S. citizen 20 years ago, had to defend herself after writing an article for a German newspaper in which she said that the United States now ''oppressed opinion'' and that decisions there were based ''solely on how much money will come out of it.''

That the United States is suffering an image problem abroad has become obvious at home. Two weeks ago, the White House announced it would create a permanent Office of Global Communications to enhance America's image around the world. At the same time, the House of Representatives approved spending $225 million on cultural and information programs abroad, mostly targeting Muslim countries, to correct what Rep. Henry Hyde, R-Ill., called a ''cacophony of hate and misinformation'' about the United States.

Meanwhile, the Council on Foreign Relations simultaneously issued a biting report warning the Bush administration that it urgently needs to upgrade its efforts at public diplomacy to counteract the country's ''shaky'' image abroad.

It called for a range of actions, from increased spending on polling of foreign public opinion and more training of foreign service officers to giving journalists from other countries access to top U.S. government officials.

'Ominous' consequences

The consequences of neglecting such public diplomacy are ''ominous,'' warns Peter Peterson, chairman of the council and of The Blackstone Group, a New York private investment bank. He says bin Laden has ''gleefully exploited'' the United States' poor public image.

''Around the world, from Western Europe to the Far East, many see the United States as arrogant, hypocritical, self-absorbed, self-indulgent and contemptuous of others,'' Peterson says. ''This is not a Muslim country issue. It has metastasized to the rest of the world and includes some of our closest European allies.''

New Yorker Julia Magnet, a journalist who just moved to London, found that out when she decided to throw a Fourth of July party for British friends. Between grilled sausages and chocolate cake, her friends launched an attack on Bush and the United States. They called Bush a ''homicidal maniac'' and ''stupid'' and the United States the ''world's biggest terrorist.''

Magnet, 22, was forgiving, and she labeled their assault ''uninformed'' and ''ignorant.''

Nevertheless, she was surprised by the venom in their words.

''What I hear from people all the time now is that we're going to go to war with just about everyone and we don't need a coalition to do it,'' Magnet says.

''It's obvious they are very, very disturbed by the power America now has.''
Discuss.

Ecthy is offline Ecthy
Emperor
Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:21
  Old Post 15-08-2002 04:28
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here's love

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:21
  Old Post 15-08-2002 04:28
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Thanks.

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
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May 1999
time: 23:21
  Old Post 15-08-2002 04:29
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God is love...

Jon Miller

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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Apr 2000
time: 02:21
  Old Post 15-08-2002 04:29 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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Truely those against the attack on Iraq are clearly uninformed. If you don't think I speak truely then why oh why is Saddam Hussein putting AA-Gun batteries and SAM launchers near isolated factories. What is being produced in those factories furthers the US's case.

Now this was unacceptable:
quote:
They called Bush a ''homicidal maniac'' and ''stupid'' and the United States the ''world's biggest terrorist.''


If anybody said that to me I would of gotten into a big argument.

"Unilateral policy" is probably one of the biggest lies I have ever heard of when people talk about the US....

I assure people here, my country Spain will stand by the US and will not fall down the same ignorant path of some Europeans who are only paving the way for future terrorist attacks. THEY ARE THE ONES SUPPORTING TERRORISTS!

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 15-08-2002 04:31 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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BTW, less seriously... From Spain and with love.... we don't hate the US....

Dr Zoidberg is offline Dr Zoidberg

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Jan 2002
time: 06:21
  Old Post 15-08-2002 04:31
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It seems that people are beginning to see that the emperor is indeed naked...and not only that but also a homocidal maniac...

Kepler is offline Kepler
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Lovely Oregon
Jul 2002
time: 21:21
  Old Post 15-08-2002 04:34
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Remember Miller analogies from the SAT?

US : European allies = Parent : teenager

Let em whine. Ear plugs are a small price to pay for world domination.

Last edited by Kepler on 15-08-2002 at 04:40

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 15-08-2002 04:37 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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European Allies that complain: Probably most of Central and Northern Europe (Germany, France... etc)

Kepler, I assure you my people are not whining about what the US does, we are behind them every step of the way. And the same with Italy.

Ecthy is offline Ecthy
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Mar 2000
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  Old Post 15-08-2002 04:38
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tandeetaylor is offline tandeetaylor
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Apr 2001
time: 21:21
  Old Post 15-08-2002 04:38
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I was disgusted by the way Americans reacted to Sept. 11. I don't hate America, but I definitely hate a lot of Americans. Just chaulk it up to being someone who has always considered herself very patriotic, and hated to get shoved around on the bandwagon by a bunch of newcomers who were loud, ignorant and rude.

Dr Zoidberg is offline Dr Zoidberg

King
Communist Party of Apolyton
Jan 2002
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  Old Post 15-08-2002 04:41
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It comforting to know that some americans are thinking for themselves

Pekka is offline Pekka
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Feb 2002
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  Old Post 15-08-2002 04:41
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fez, northern europe.. my ass. You need to learn to shut up when you know nothing you talk about. Really. If you got something against us, say it, don't imply every chance you got.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 15-08-2002 04:44 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Pekka
fez, northern europe.. my ass. You need to learn to shut up when you know nothing you talk about. Really. If you got something against us, say it, don't imply every chance you got.


Yes I got something to say to you: Stop messing around with plans against terrorists. If you hate the US so much mind your own business. They have a right to attack Saddam.

At least my country has some common sense about terrorists. Heck, we are very decisive when going after them. We don't say "oh maybe they will go away because of our ignorance" like some Europeans, we rather say "They can run but they can't hide." And that IS A FACT!

Kepler is offline Kepler
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Jul 2002
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  Old Post 15-08-2002 04:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Fez
Kepler, I assure you my people are not whining about what the US does, we are behind them every step of the way. And the same with Italy.


I know that Fez, I was kidding. (I have now added the appropriate emoticon; I genuinely didn't think it was necessary.)

Whenever I go overseas people say the same thing: we love Americans but we have questions about the American government and its policies. I tell them that's exactly how most Americans feel (about 55% last time we checked), and we all laugh and get along after that.

Be that as it may, I support what the US has done internationally thus far with respect to 9/11. The justice department has been taking the easy, jackboot way, but the military and State having been saying and doing the right things. Even an attack on Saddam might in the end be the right thing, if we can round up allied support. Going it alone would obviously be a disaster.

Last edited by Kepler on 15-08-2002 at 04:50

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 15-08-2002 04:46 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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Kepler: Yeah, I got some questions about the US government myself aswell... on some of their policies (like that towards Saudi Arabia)... but I like Americans and I also like Bush... but still got questions...

Provost Harrison is offline Provost Harrison
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The farce is strong with this one.
Feb 2000
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  Old Post 15-08-2002 04:47
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Bush wields power like a blunt weapon. Their gunboat diplomacy and their contempt towards other peoples does cause a lot of displeasure amongst other nations.

The arrogant comments that irritate Europeans such as 'We saved your ass in the war' and bullsh*t like that only annoys people further.

Oh and Kepler, you have the relationship the wrong way around.

Tuberski is offline Tuberski
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  Old Post 15-08-2002 04:47 Visit Tuberski's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by tandeetaylor
I was disgusted by the way Americans reacted to Sept. 11. I don't hate America, but I definitely hate a lot of Americans. Just chaulk it up to being someone who has always considered herself very patriotic, and hated to get shoved around on the bandwagon by a bunch of newcomers who were loud, ignorant and rude.



I wasn't disgusted, nor was I suprised by the way the American people responded. You HATE a lot of Americans? That is pretty sad, not quite as sad as the sudden patriotism, but it is sad.

Basically you were disgusted because other Americans decided to feel what you already felt. I agree that they should feel that way all the time like you and I do, but that will never be the case.

tandeetaylor is offline tandeetaylor
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  Old Post 15-08-2002 04:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Fez
They have a right to attack Saddam.


Because he's ugly and mean?

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 15-08-2002 04:49 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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PH:

Gunboat diplomacy? Contempt towards other people? Oh please!

Take Iraq for example... they live under a brutal regime that gas bombs their people and some Eurocoms (love that term) don't want him removed? What about the $25k that bastard pays for suicide bombers in Israel?

Tuberski is offline Tuberski
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quote:
Originally posted by Provost Harrison

The arrogant comments that irritate Europeans such as 'We saved your ass in the war' and bullsh*t like that only annoys people further.




Of course, the arrogant comments that come out of Eurpoean mouths are okay, right?

I know, in my case, that I will meet arrogance with arrogance, even though I don't really feel that way.

Pekka is offline Pekka
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  Old Post 15-08-2002 04:51
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Oh is that right? What have we done that messes everything up? I don't want no I'm-politically-more-informed-than-you, I want facts!
Do you know the reasons why some euros are complaining about it? And btw, since there are terrorists in Spain, why don't we all attack there? They couldn't hide if we just rallied up.
Northern europe has done nothing what so ever to slow down war on terror, and if some lefties are getting some space in the headlines sometimes, how does that make us terrorists supporters? Very fast accucations without any facts presented.

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quote:
Originally posted by Pekka

Northern europe has done nothing what so ever to slow down war on terror, and if some lefties are getting some space in the headlines sometimes, how does that make us terrorists supporters? Very fast accucations without any facts presented.



But, on the other hand, have you done anything to speed up the war on terror?

Provost Harrison is offline Provost Harrison
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Feb 2000
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quote:
Originally posted by Tuberski



Of course, the arrogant comments that come out of Eurpoean mouths are okay, right?

I know, in my case, that I will meet arrogance with arrogance, even though I don't really feel that way.


Like what?

I do not consider myself to be anti-American, but I am critical of your administration...highly critical...like American's should be too...

tandeetaylor is offline tandeetaylor
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  Old Post 15-08-2002 04:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Tuberski
You HATE a lot of Americans?


Yeah, so?

quote:
Basically you were disgusted because other Americans decided to feel what you already felt. I agree that they should feel that way all the time like you and I do, but that will never be the case.


Basically because they felt (vaguely) what I had felt for undefinable reasons and because their patriotic fever was more of a murderous hate than anything else. Ask one of the them "What makes America a unique country?" See if you get anything intelligent in response. Also, ask one of the many, many people who I heard make comments such as, "We should just bomb the hell out of all of them," to point out which countries they would like to "bomb the hell out of" on a map.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 15-08-2002 04:54 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Pekka
Oh is that right? What have we done that messes everything up? I don't want no I'm-politically-more-informed-than-you, I want facts!
Do you know the reasons why some euros are complaining about it?


They are uninformed about the situation.

quote:
And btw, since there are terrorists in Spain, why don't we all attack there? They couldn't hide if we just rallied up.


We can go after them ourselves. That is what the Spanish Civil Guard is for. BTW, the political party of the ETA has just been illegalized in Spain.l

quote:
Northern europe has done nothing what so ever to slow down war on terror, and if some lefties are getting some space in the headlines sometimes, how does that make us terrorists supporters? Very fast accucations without any facts presented.


Because you don't want the US to attack Iraq.

I never said you all were terrorist supporters. I just said those filled with ignorant thoughts (saying that the US shouldn't go after terrorism) are those who actually support terrorists indirectly.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 15-08-2002 04:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Tuberski
But, on the other hand, have you done anything to speed up the war on terror?
They have oil.

loinburger is offline loinburger
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Sweet Sauce Jones
Jul 1999
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  Old Post 15-08-2002 04:55 Visit loinburger's homepage!
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When I went to Europe recently there was a fair amount of resentment or even hostility towards my American friends and me. It was pretty annoying, since it was almost always a case of some European disliking something he/she heard on Fox News or MSNBC, and deciding that I was to blame. F'rinstance, one Portuguese fellow explained that he disliked me because Fox News spouts conservative propoganda. The fact that I do not work for Fox News was apparently lost on him.

Didn't bother me too much, and still doesn't. If some haters want to take their dislike for American foreign policy (in which I obviously have no say) and turn it into a dislike for me, then I can't be held responsible for the fact that they're bigoted *******s.

Tuberski is offline Tuberski
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quote:
Originally posted by Provost Harrison


Like what?

I do not consider myself to be anti-American, but I am critical of your administration...highly critical...like American's should be too...



Hell, I don't know what has been said.

I also am critical of the administration, I'm getting the feeling Dubya is getting WAY too much power over everyday things in this country.

WHAT they are trying to do, I agree with.

HOW they are doing it, I do not.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 15-08-2002 04:56 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Provost Harrison


I do not consider myself to be anti-American, but I am critical of your administration...highly critical...like American's should be too...


You are critical because Bush is making progress against terrorism?

 
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