15-08-2002 04:56									#31
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> What about the $25k that bastard pays for suicide bombers in Israel?

(1) Under international law, is this the equivalent of paying an assassin?

(2) Is it really $25k? I would expect that would be a fortune in that part of the world.

	15-08-2002 04:58									#32
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quote: (1) Under international law, is this the equivalent of paying an assassin?

Yes.

quote: (2) Is it really $25k? I would expect that would be a fortune in that part of the world.

My source is: http://www.defenselink.mil - Some of the past articles at that respected site has Rumsfeld talking about the $25,000 given to suicide bomber's families.

	15-08-2002 04:59									#33
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Tuberski, A little. Not much though. But if we would, would you share the oil pipelines with us? .
Btw, we have people in for example afghanistan right now. Plus in the near future, we will get refugees and pay for them.
Besides, war on terror is not our war in the way that it is for you guys. We don't have terrorists, no matter how people would love it. Our budgets are a bit smaller than yours, and so is our military. Also we have a politics for NOT attacking any country, not even for selfdefense.

So in short, we don't have the resources for it even if we wanted to, our legislation won't allow it etcetc.
We don't get any threats from other countries, Al Qaida is not threatning us, so what exactly is it that we should do other than show our moral support?

	15-08-2002 05:02									#34
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger F'rinstance, one Portuguese fellow explained that he disliked me because Fox News spouts conservative propoganda. The fact that I do not work for Fox News was apparently lost on him.

Hey, sounds like Fez's blanket bitterness for the rest of Europe.

	15-08-2002 05:02									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka We don't get any threats from other countries, Al Qaida is not threatning us, so what exactly is it that we should do other than show our moral support?

Moral support that, according to the article at the beginning of this thread, is lacking......

	15-08-2002 05:02									#36
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Okay Pekka... you have a point and I must concede I was a bit too loud mouthed.... I should of noted some of the good things your country and other neighboring countries have done.

	15-08-2002 05:03									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Fez They are uninformed about the situation. We can go after them ourselves. That is what the Spanish Civil Guard is for. BTW, the political party of the ETA has just been illegalized in Spain.l Because you don't want the US to attack Iraq. I never said you all were terrorist supporters. I just said those filled with ignorant thoughts (saying that the US shouldn't go after terrorism) are those who actually support terrorists indirectly.

Who are? The Northern Europe? We get newspapers too. What is it that we haven't been informed?


And yes, some people don't want US to attack Iraq, how is that different from the rest of the world?
And yes, you said we are terrorist supporters.
And NO ONE is saying US shouldn't go after terrorism, some people just have different opininons how it shoud be done.
And I didn't get any facts how we have been slowing down the war.

edit: Nice quoting!
I apologize my attacking. I have some worries not related to this, so it was a bit uncalled for. Sorry fez and looove to you.

	15-08-2002 05:04									#38
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Pekka, read my last post. You will see I have conceded in being too fast in drawing conclusions.

BTW, ETA is on the run... we are going after them...

	15-08-2002 05:04									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Kamrat X It comforting to know that some americans are thinking for themselves

Absolutely!!

I wholeheartedly agree!
Why, tune into the local Radio Station folks and hear what America is saying about those whom dont like U S A

its call signs are very simple..ifin you can try and apply some of the wise and wonderful wisdom you people whom dont like America possess, tune into:

"W" ho
"G" ives
A
"R" ats
"A" r$E!!

In other words, Love USA
Hate USA
Or whatever, I cant control your response, no matter, I am one person, I dont hate folks whom live in others countries, I dont hate those whom finance terrorism because I feel that the US Govt. does more than its share of covert Ops, but I dont hate other people, and for real, I see a lot of my hard earned US Tax dollars going to economic aid to lots of countries whom in turn bite our hand, my hand, the working stiff that helps finance reformation in a foreign land only to have that country rear its head, bare its teeth and growl how unjust we are or how arroagant we are or how we offend other countries, like Americans get offended and we are just supposed to sit back.

I say dont hate, Just.......

	15-08-2002 05:04									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Fez ... because Bush is making progress against terrorism?

Bomb one (along with two of his sisters and their friend), two grow up in his place.

	15-08-2002 05:05									#41
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sig pics suck

	15-08-2002 05:06									#42
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quote: Originally posted by tandeetaylor Bomb one (along with two of his sisters and their friend), two grow up in his place.

Not happening in Afghanistan, infact they are happy to have the US there. Millions of afghanis would of starved to death.

	15-08-2002 05:08									#43
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What's made you such a sycophant Fez?

And deposing Saddam or the welfare of the people was never a concern in the Gulf War nor the following 11 1/2 years...nor during the sanctions...why now? We know the story of what happens when the US meddles: Nicaragua, Vietnam, Cuba...and you try and tell me that the US administration is doing it for 'the right reasons'. Pull the other one, it is about enforcement and terror of their own, like much of the campaign in Afghanistan. To demonstrate who is top dog. Call me cynical if you must, but US foreign policy is the epitome of gunboat diplomacy!

	15-08-2002 05:11									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Not happening in Afghanistan...

OK, I didn't mean, like, in the exact geographical location that the other one was standing in. I'll be more clear next time.

	15-08-2002 05:11									#45
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Say what you want PH, you have your opinions. I have mine. I will respect you (no matter how hard it is). And don't call me names based on what I think.

If the US never intervened in Afghanistan, I would know who to blame for what would of happened to millions of afghani people. They would of starved to death. Now you are saying the US shouldn't of invaded Afghanistan?

Geez... this is too much...

	15-08-2002 05:11									#46
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Europeans dont hate America, they hate american conservatism.

I dont know a single person who had a major problem with Clinton but as soon as Bush became president, people in Europe started to hate him.

The spy plane in china
The gobal warming treaty
Steel tariffs
Ruining Europe's peaceful efforts to engage Iran with his whole "Axis of evil" thing

The list goes on...

The reasons that European opinion has turned against america are have nothing to do with its wealth or the size of its military (although i think that maybe a lot of americans would find it comforting to to blame it on jealousy) and everything to do with Bush's brand of "America First" conservatism



PS
If anyone starts talking about Reagan or Bush Snr, may I remind them that they occupied the White house during thye Cold War - Europeans were much more willing to support self defence of western sovereignty rather than defence of western dominance

	15-08-2002 05:12									#47
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quote: "Unilateral policy" is probably one of the biggest lies I have ever heard of when people talk about the US....

So you are saying that it would be a bad thing for the US to have a foreign policy where they went out and did things like invaded countries without the baking of our allies in Europe and we do not act unilaterally, right?

quote: the same ignorant path of some Europeans who are only paving the way for future terrorist attacks. THEY ARE THE ONES SUPPORTING TERRORISTS!

Now we have condemnations of Europeans for not following US lead right, thus forcing the US to be unilateral in its foreign policy.

quote: Kepler, I assure you my people are not whining about what the US does, we are behind them every step of the way. And the same with Italy.

Ah so now it only Europeans from places that Gian's family doesn't come from. I'm sure these fine people will be very surpised to discover they don't exist:
http://italy.indymedia.org/

quote: If you hate the US so much mind your own business.

Aaaah now he's telling Europeans that if they should let the US act unilaterally and not back the US up, something which he characterized above as "SUPPORTING TERRORISTS" and would result in the us persueing a course of action that he labelled above as "the biggest lie."

quote: We don't say "oh maybe they will go away because of our ignorance" like some Europeans

I'm sure that these:
http://www.worldsocialist-cwi.org/I...06/25Spain.html
people will be equalled saddened by their non-existance.

quote: I never said you all were terrorist supporters.

quote: THEY ARE THE ONES SUPPORTING TERRORISTS!

This is one confused squirrel...

	15-08-2002 05:15									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison ...and you try and tell me that the US administration is doing it for 'the right reasons'.

Yeah, most Americans I know feel a heartfelt sorrow for the people of Iraq...

Even if they did, American soldiers don't have a responsibility to be taken to another country to fight and die for the welfare of its citizens.

	15-08-2002 05:15									#49
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Besides, it can be close we too join the wars the US fights, if we join the NATO. It's gonna be a close call though, there might be a voting. It's not that easy. We don't have 1000 fighters fueled up and ready to go. We don't have ships ready to sail the seas, they're here to stay and defend. If we had more.. then I don't see any reasons why not participating. And if we join NATO, then that's what we'll do, get more.

Plus since we don't have big professional armys, you know it would suck ass, since I myself could get drafted, wanted or not. I'm all for fighting them evil-doers, ready to go, but it would still suck. And many of my friends would agree.

And if US has the right to attack Iraq, then we surely have the right to say our opinions about it?

	15-08-2002 05:17									#50
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Threads like this would be a lot more interesting if certain posters were simply ignored.

	15-08-2002 05:20									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Geez... this is too much...

I know! All this logic and reason in the face of your ill-founded opinions. Moderators!

	15-08-2002 05:21									#52
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This is true tandeetaylor, and it surprises me that they think the Gulf War was over anything other than oil. Iraq would have forced an increase in the price of oil...Kuwait's invasion was very convenient.

	15-08-2002 05:22									#53
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quote: Originally posted by tandeetaylor Even if they did, American soldiers don't have a responsibility to be taken to another country to fight and die for the welfare of its citizens.

NO, they don't have to. Unfortunately, the conflict with Iraq is rooted not just in our desire to help with the citizens of Iraq, but saddam's regime does indeed prove a threat to America's interests-- both in economy and in security. He's a loon. And when someone who has shown an affinity to use chemical weapons on their enemies refuses to allow the UN to inspect their chemical arsenal, then that is a threat. A threat that has been there for too long.

	15-08-2002 05:24									#54
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I believe saddam is ready to let the inspectors back?
But then again he could be just fishing. He would be plain stupid to let inspectors, they are potential spies and since it's gonna be a war no matter what, why would he let them come there?

	15-08-2002 05:25									#55
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Then again he could be letting them back, restricting their jobs and places to visit, just to play more time and get things organized.

	15-08-2002 05:26									#56
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In fact, I agree with you. There will be war no matter what. He is a madman in a highly unstable area in which the US has too many interests. So we gotta get him and his regime out of power.

	15-08-2002 05:28									#57
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Newsflash: Fez is NOT the ruler of Spain.

Stop speaking about Spanish citizens as if they were your subjects, and Spain as if you control it. Moreover, you don't even live there, so be a good lad and shut the fuck up.

	15-08-2002 05:28									#58
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quote: Originally posted by finkian NO, they don't have to. Unfortunately, the conflict with Iraq is rooted not just in our desire to help with the citizens of Iraq, but saddam's regime does indeed prove a threat to America's interests-- both in economy and in security. He's a loon. And when someone who has shown an affinity to use chemical weapons on their enemies refuses to allow the UN to inspect their chemical arsenal, then that is a threat. A threat that has been there for too long.

[Hi fink! I've missed you. ::kisses:: ]

I understand this point. I was more responding to Fez's use of the plight of the Iraqi people to justify an American attack of Iraq.

I still disagree though. Let's all remember that Saddam has never attacked the US, nor has he attempted to. He may be a horrible person, but he's not a complete idiot. Self-preservation is important to him, witness his attempts to appease Bush by offering inspector access, which hasn't even been on the table with him for quite some time.

And if we're going to attack every crazy person who may or may not be a threat to us, then we'd better get going, the road ahead is long.

	15-08-2002 05:30									#59
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On Topic: very timely article

This is one American who is just as upset with America as the Euros are. Sometimes I'm embarrassed to refer to myself as an American because of the thoughts and actions of some of our leaders.

We need to start practicing what we preach!

	15-08-2002 05:32									#60
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger Threads like this would be a lot more interesting if certain posters were simply ignored.

Loinburger, please let your opinions fill the voids of the reply page and dont let anyone tell you not to post!

Its ok, not everyone ignores you!!

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