15-08-2002 06:23									#121
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Let me start off by saying that I thought the outpouring of patriotism post 9/11 very refreshing.

Bounce back from disaster and all that stuff.

	15-08-2002 06:26									#122
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And also that the show of support from Europe directly after the attack and in Afghanistan was very touching.

	15-08-2002 06:27									#123
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quote: Originally posted by finkian You're right. Getting rid of Saddam so I can drive an SUV. Or be defended by an Abrams tank. Or fly home to Oregon in a 747. Yeah.

Exactly my point. See my original post.

quote: Too bad that there are very few places with such a large supply of oil accessable... like none.

I'm sure Saddam will sell you oil if you act a bit nicer, just perhaps not at a price you like... but that's how business works.

	15-08-2002 06:28									#124
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quote: Let me start off by saying that I thought the outpouring of patriotism post 9/11 very refreshing. Bounce back from disaster and all that stuff.

But that wouldn't explain all of the hostility in Europe away, would it?

	15-08-2002 06:29									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man I'm sure Saddam will sell you oil if you act a bit nicer, just perhaps not at a price you like... but that's how business works.

Sure, he'll just all of a sudden develop a reasonable attitude towards the "Great White Satan of the West."

	15-08-2002 06:29									#126
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quote: Originally posted by finkian You're right. Getting rid of Saddam so I can drive an SUV. Or be defended by an Abrams tank. Or fly home to Oregon in a 747. Yeah. Too bad that there are very few places with such a large supply of oil accessable... like none.

bullshit. We have plenty of oil. The only change is the price, and Iraq can't afford to not sell the west oil anyway. You're discrediting yourself with posts like this.

	15-08-2002 06:30									#127
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STYOM: You didn't think we would sit idly by while Saddam took control over 35% of the world's oil reserve did you? Would the Saudi's have invited us in if they hadn't thought it possible?

Show us some luv.

	15-08-2002 06:33									#128
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again i'll say 'at least we had a coalliton that time'

This time there is nothing. Just a war mongering president with an itchy trigger finger

	15-08-2002 06:33									#129
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc But that wouldn't explain all of the hostility in Europe away, would it?

No. That would be because Europe got the hebegebees over being too close to the U.S. Europe is like someone who is confused about his sexuality.

Show some support while they are discerning.

	15-08-2002 06:36									#130
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Anti-americanism (about the US government) is a welcomed and refreshing change. Finally, some countries are nolonger alone in this

BTW the sh!t hit the fence when Germany jumped on the wagon and expressed antiamericanism. That's when the whole thing got critical mass cause that's how influencial Germany is.

Now even England is antiamerican (far more than what it used to be).

There are different reasons as to why to be an antimaerican but what counts is the end result.

	15-08-2002 06:38									#131
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there are wonderful and insightful pieces written about WHY they hate us which transent the funny "we are the best thats why"


that was not one of them but close.

	15-08-2002 06:38									#132
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Paiktis: Europe has been very supportive in Afghanistan. Thank you for your support.

	15-08-2002 06:38									#133
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isn't the phrase "the **** hit the fan" or are you using a different saying there paiktis?

	15-08-2002 06:39									#134
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quote: Originally posted by orange again i'll say 'at least we had a coalliton that time'

Coalitions only serve to make it more convenient, something that I didn't a pacifist like yourself wanted. They aren't a hard and fast requirement for military action.

DanS: I'll try.

	15-08-2002 06:41									#135
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i will try to use idioms with greater care from now on yes the fan


DanS, yes it has been. The chasm between the electorate and the government is amazingly big.

	15-08-2002 06:42									#136
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quote: Originally posted by finkian Sure, he'll just all of a sudden develop a reasonable attitude towards the "Great White Satan of the West."

I did say you have to act a bit nicer. Quite a lot of people who don't like you will still do business with you.

@DanS - well, for quite some time, the USA was the world's largest oil producer (and may still be?). So, was Japan justified in attacking in 1941 when the US turned off the oil tap?

Again, my point is, you acted in 1991 based on self interest, and you're acting in 2002 based on self interest. Not Europe's interests, not the Kurds' interests. Quite probably Exxon's interests, though

	15-08-2002 06:46									#137
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EU governments have a lot of hypocrisy. many need the US but they talk negatively about her as to not alianate their electorates.


i.e. the crisis with spain and maroco... the US was asked to intervene cause France has ties with maroco and wouldnt let the EU function in a better way.

powel had to intervene (under the table)

same with Greece Turkey. when there is a fire who puts it out? the US.


but there is more to the stories than that.

its not black and white. but just something to please you yankees

	15-08-2002 06:47									#138
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quote: Threads like this would be a lot more interesting if certain posters were simply ignored.

Nah, the "certain posters" are the whole point of these threads

quote: Boshko: I have you on my ignore list so please don't bother typing up a long message as I can't see them.

Bah!
*sticks out fongue at Gian*

	15-08-2002 06:48									#139
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IIRC, the U.S. is still the largest producer.

Saddam was stealing reserves. Full stop. Are you suggesting that we shouldn't have tried to stop him?

"Again, my point is, you acted in 1991 based on self interest, and you're acting in 2002 based on self interest. Not Europe's interests, not the Kurds' interests."

Why try to artificially to ignore interests? It was in everybody's interest in 1991, including the US'. That's why Europe and Canada participated. That's why Japan footed the bill.

The case for 2002/3 hasn't even been made yet. The Euros were just freaked out that we were rushing into war with Iraq. So better to give out opposition at first. But it was a little overdone.

But hey, we consult our allies, so give us some luv, big guy.

	15-08-2002 06:49									#140
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basically the left wing roots (once soviet dominated) of europe show up.

what is interesting is why the right wing doesnt like the US..??????????

the image is of US is of a very powerful rogue state capable of causing bloodshed all over the globe if thats what it takes to promote its interests

	15-08-2002 06:51									#141
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 EU governments have a lot of hypocrisy. many need the US but they talk negatively about her as to not alianate their electorates. i.e. the crisis with spain and maroco... the US was asked to intervene cause France has ties with maroco and wouldnt let the EU function in a better way. powel had to intervene (under the table) same with Greece Turkey. when there is a fire who puts it out? the US. but there is more to the stories than that. its not black and white. but just something to please you yankees

Man, you had me scared, think you were becoming pro-American or something!

	15-08-2002 06:54									#142
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Coalitions only serve to make it more convenient, something that I didn't a pacifist like yourself wanted. They aren't a hard and fast requirement for military action.

It doesn't make the reasons for invasion any better. But what I am saying is that last time we had spoken and military support from many countries, as well as a smoking gun. This time we have neither.

	15-08-2002 06:54									#143
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IRL I'm just neutral I just see/evaluate facts

	15-08-2002 06:55									#144
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"This time" hasn't even started. No case has been attempted to be made by Bush yet.

	15-08-2002 06:59									#145
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quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man If you want to ridicule your own argument, go ahead But seriously... Why don't you get your oil from somewhere else, rather than killing people so you can drive SUVs? Or.. ...oh, right... because starting a war suits US interests better.

Shhh.. Don't tell them that or else they'll be wanting our oil too.

	15-08-2002 07:04									#146
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quote: Originally posted by Loif Shhh.. Don't tell them that or else they'll be wanting our oil too.

At $60/barrel, if we play our cards right

	15-08-2002 07:50									#147
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quote: Originally posted by finkian It's unfortunate that money runs our policy, but a reality. I would like to say that America could do everything based on goodwill towards the fellow man, but it's just not possible. Neither you, nor your son, will live off of goodwill, nor drive to work on saving the world for Iraqi peasants. You will, however, when tensions ease in the middle east.

You seem to be saying that you think American policy should be based on its own national interests, yet you continue to say that that is unfortunate. So should it or shouldn't it. Stand up and take a side and stop contradicting yourself.

	15-08-2002 08:37									#148
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quote: I would like to say that America could do everything based on goodwill towards the fellow man...

Yeah, let's get Saddam over here. We'll sing Khumbaya and talk. 'So, dropped any more chemical weapons on you're own people?' 'Still forcing government officials to read you're 19 volume biography?' 'And how's that Mother of All Battles thing going? You've been talking about it since the end of Desert Storm(hope you're still not mad at us), so how are you're preparations coming along?'

You want the U.S. to make its policies based on you're opinions? Double check with you before we make any decisions? I'm sure you're own countries have enough problems, no need to look on the other side of the pond to find them.

Well, as far as I'm concerned, if we don't invade Iraq, then we should boycott 'em. Let Saddam keep his oil - I'm willing to pay higher gas prices.

Back to the original topic.

Love and peace through war and bloodshed.

	15-08-2002 08:42									#149
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maybe because the US is a greedy, consumerist society that takes and uses and exploits... just a thought...

	15-08-2002 09:04									#150
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc PS I really want to express my awe at the collective threadjack.

Don't tell me you expected anything else.


Just a question. Do any of you actually write your material as you post or do you just keep a wordpad doc. with anti-american stuff on hand for threads such as this? I'm really curious.


Official American Response. Blah blah blah blah.