16-08-2002 09:58									#31
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX Public school should be for those who want to learn. I never understood why some of the kids showed up each day just to fail over and over. eventually most of them STOPPED showing up, but others didnt. I have a friend who failed every class this year (his senior year). even Physical Education. He's currently supposed to be in summer school and is going to have to repeat most of the year anyway. He has no intention of going back. and tax dollars, school supplies, text books, and teacher attention were all wasted on him. no point in that.

I have witnessed many people who fit this exact profile, UK, and it really pisses me off. I was the student member of the school board, and I personally experienced these problems, and have witnessed the waste of budgeted money on those who just didn't want to learn. I made these same complaints at the meetings as I am making here, and the board memebers and parents were horrified by my arrogance. Our education system needs a fundamental overhaul. Unfortunately, our educators don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, and parents don't want to have to see that their kids are stupid.

	16-08-2002 09:58									#32
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Another thing, the "geek" problem.

in nations around the world, intelligence is something of high stature, something noble that seem to raise a person up above the general populus. Intelligent people of often respected by society at large.

Case in point America doesn't do that. The General public at early ages makes fun of the intelligent, and belittles them. The intelligent then grow up differently, or some of them actually "give up" their intelligence to "fit in" (my friend mentioned above used to be in Honors classes).

The intelligent in America do respect eachother though, and as adults intelligence does get a bit of a "stature bump". the problem is within the school system social structure.

If you had only intelligent people in the school, the school-going society would respect intelligence, no?

but then the smart get smarter and the dumb get dumber, and sooner or later you have a large scale "dumb" population.

::sigh::

one of the only things i dislike about america is a chunk of it's culture. i love the rest of this great nation so, but our "culture" shall be the death of us all.

gotta go, celerbity boxing is on.

(kidding)

	16-08-2002 10:06									#33
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My school had Special Ed, General, Merit, and Honors/AP divisions. The Sepcial Ed and General classes had around 35-45% percent of the student population (Special ed was about 15%), yet those two combined recieved around 80% of our school's education budget and caused about 95% of the school's disciplinary problems. They just didn't want to be there. Merit students were forced to use the same books as the General students. Our Honors students were further neglected, and the number of AP classes were reduced every year. I was forced to take "honors" World History with idiots like the girl I mentioned above.

"You mean Hitler was in World War 2?"

	16-08-2002 10:17									#34
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Come on people, not knowing something is not stupidity, merely ignorance.

Some people might not be interested in learning academic stuff but they might have other talents, for example, in the arts.

Engineers and scientists are important, but we also need artists and humanists.

	16-08-2002 10:17									#35
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one of my teachers actually had to say to one kid

"GHANDI GOOD. HITLER BAD." because he got them confused somehow.

when you hear "hitler lead non-violent protests in india", you can help but laugh.

	16-08-2002 10:19									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Come on people, not knowing something is not stupidity, merely ignorance. Some people might not be interested in learning academic stuff but they might have other talents, for example, in the arts. Engineers and scientists are important, but we also need artists and humanists.

then let them goto an art school. why bother spending collective tax dollars on them?

perhaps their should be different types of "public" schools? like a "public school of arts"?

	16-08-2002 10:20									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Engineers and scientists are important, but we also need artists and humanists.

Er......Are they opposites? Ive met quite a few engineers whom were also pretty good artists, etc...

	16-08-2002 10:20									#38
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX when you hear "hitler lead non-violent protests in india", you can help but laugh.

You have a point. I laughed at that one.

	16-08-2002 10:22									#39
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quote: when you hear "hitler lead non-violent protests in india", you can help but laugh.

thats the first thing on this forum that actually made me laugh out loud, not in my head

	16-08-2002 10:26									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Come on people, not knowing something is not stupidity, merely ignorance. Some people might not be interested in learning academic stuff but they might have other talents, for example, in the arts. Engineers and scientists are important, but we also need artists and humanists.

When people who simply aren't interested in learning are recieving a large majority of the educational funding I consider that to be a major problem. Why should students who are genuinely interested in learning, students who are outstanding at anything from math to art, be bogged down by a group of people who just don't care? The interested and capable students should be cultivated, not ignored. The sub-par, apathetic students should be challenged, not coddled.

	16-08-2002 10:30									#41
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Personally I believe that excessive education levels in a society can be counter-productive. There are still a lot of jobs that require relatively unskilled labor. If everyone is too educated, who will fill in those jobs?

	16-08-2002 10:33									#42
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The robots that the population's high level of intelligence could build.

	16-08-2002 10:37									#43
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Robots are built owing to high intelligence levels of the tech elite, not of the population as a whole.

	16-08-2002 10:50									#44
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My brother had a Contemporary World History Honors teacher in high school who kept confusing Hitler and Stalin. Not quite as bad as confusing Hitler and Ghandi, sure, that is until you take into account that this was the teacher who was confusing them.

Fortunately, she transferred to a different school before I got to that class.

As for tracking programs, my high school had four levels: Basic, Regular, Honors, and Omni. Omni was actually a trade school program, not part of the regular curriculum; I thought it was a great idea, because a few kids I knew hated school but liked work, so a trade school was perfectly suited to them. One of them "dropped out" just before his Senior year because he'd gotten enough experience through the trade school program that he didn't really need high school anymore--he got a job as a mechanic instead.

	16-08-2002 10:51									#45
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond Robots are built owing to high intelligence levels of the tech elite, not of the population as a whole.

Sure, why would you need proles when you've got robots?

	16-08-2002 10:53									#46
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uhh this thread is just a tad elitist. People saying stupid people can vote . Oh the horror (sarcasm). last time I checked stupid people are people. They have the same right for representation as smart people.

shame on you people!!!!!!!!!!!!!

	16-08-2002 10:57									#47
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although I did see one good point in this thread. Some smart people do "give" up their intelligence.

I know for a fact my IQ exceeds 200 . But I never went to college.

I like being known for my ability to work with my hands than with my brain. I like ladies to think I'm good with my hands as well

	16-08-2002 11:01									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident uhh this thread is just a tad elitist. People saying stupid people can vote . Oh the horror (sarcasm). last time I checked stupid people are people. They have the same right for representation as smart people. shame on you people!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stupid people do have representation: Dubya

	16-08-2002 11:02									#49
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I am disgusted by you intelligensia and your elitism. Instead of wanting to educate these people better, you just complain and 'joke' about exterminating them or taking away their rights as citizens... this is disgusting... you do realize that people don't pay attention in school not because they're idiots but because they see no reason why they should learn... people got other **** to deal with than memorize dates...

FUK THE INTELECTUALS!

	16-08-2002 11:04									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer I am disgusted by you intelligensia and your elitism. Instead of wanting to educate these people better, you just complain and 'joke' about exterminating them or taking away their rights as citizens... this is disgusting... you do realize that people don't pay attention in school not because they're idiots but because they see no reason why they should learn... people got other **** to deal with than memorize dates...

You can't educate someone who will not listen. It's that simple. (Although the teachers in america should put forth a little more effort...)

	16-08-2002 11:07									#51
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American teachers come in both the apathetic and avid variety, and it's all a matter of getting the most you can out of the avid variety and doing your best despite the worst efforts of the apathetic variety. The exception is junior high teachers, who all come in the ******* variety and should be fought tooth and nail. Ultimately, though, education is in the hands of the students, not the teachers.

	16-08-2002 11:09									#52
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quote: Originally posted by nationalist Stupid people do have representation: Dubya

Dubya is not stupid. On the contrary, he is rather clever. He is simply not well educated (despite having studied at Harvard).

	16-08-2002 11:09									#53
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Albert, these people don't want to be educated. Not wanting to learn is a sure sign of stupidity. My problem is that money is taken away from those who want to learn and given to those who couldn't care less. Being educated is part of being a citizen. If you don't want to be educated, then you are not fufilling your duty as a citizen. Educated citizens can govern themselves. Uneducated people cannot.

	16-08-2002 11:12									#54
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You want to know why they won't listen? Because they got other **** to deal with... people don't got little nice homes and **** where they can go and do their homework and have their mommy and daddy helping them if they got a problem... plenty of people just plain don't see the need in trying. It's all the same... whether you try or not, you'll have a kid by the time you're 18... so people say f--- that... they ain't trying...

And where do you people go to school?

	16-08-2002 11:12									#55
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond Dubya is not stupid. On the contrary, he is rather clever. He is simply not well educated (despite having studied at Harvard).

I know Dubya isn't stupid. Hegraduated from Yale, and is probably smater than 99% of the population. He is simply inarticulate and relatively inexperienced compared to his colleages, and it makes him look stupid. I was just making a joke that I thought Diss would enjoy.

	16-08-2002 11:15									#56
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Oops, he graduated from Yale...

	16-08-2002 11:17									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer And where do you people go to school?

I go to the College of William and Mary. Its an Ivy Leage school. I went to a public high school in the Appalachians. I see problems here too, believe it or not. 13 year olds having kids. Its not right. But the point is, if they don't care, why waste the money when it can be spent on others who do care.

	16-08-2002 11:20									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer You want to know why they won't listen? ... they ain't trying...

Wait, I'm confused. Are you arging for or against the position that people who don't care about school ought not to attend? Or is this just a rant?

	16-08-2002 11:22									#59
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to make them care... though shooving money in their faces (the democrat's way) don't help either... we need a grass roots cultural change stressing morality and showing that oppurtunity exists... we need to have people be big brothers and sisters for all the young boys and girls who is coming up now without no parents and try to steer these young ones in the right direction so they stay in school and pay attention in school because an education will open doors... that's what people need to drill into the minds of the youth. back in the day, parents did that, but people dont got parents now a days. We need a cultural change and unfortunately, too few groups are being outspoken about education... only Farrakhan or the new African panthers talk about anything.


thanks

	16-08-2002 11:23									#60
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loinburger:

I was explaining why too many people don't care to learn now a days...