16-08-2002 11:25									#61
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What about white people who don't care about education? What about rural people? Does Farrakan care about them?

	16-08-2002 11:25									#62
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Speer:

Okay, but the question is, should people who don't care about being educated be educated.

	16-08-2002 11:26									#63
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well I know the direction Speer is heading. Inner city schools blah blah blah.

But amazingly he may be right. Possibley a first for him . Poor people in inner city neighborhoods have a lot of turmoil in their lives. They cannot focus on school as much as people in middle class families.

	16-08-2002 11:27									#64
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Why should those who don't want to be educated get the overwhelming percentage of the education budget that they get now?

	16-08-2002 11:27									#65
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exactly, nationalist... that's my point... no one except black nationalists seem to give a damn about cultural change in the minds of the people to favor education and success...

	16-08-2002 11:28									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident Poor people in inner city neighborhoods have a lot of turmoil in their lives. They cannot focus on school as much as people in middle class families.

No doubt about that.

	16-08-2002 11:29									#67
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Dissident:

Exactly... and not just inner city youth, but also all the youth in the trailer parks and run down small towns... these are not ungreatful rich boys in the suburbs who would rather smoke weed than pay attention in school... these are people with legitimate things to deal with that distracts them from school.

	16-08-2002 11:30									#68
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Ah well, there's an easy solution to effect cultural change: wait until the anti-intellectualism in the US causes it to be overwhelmed by the intellectualism of a superior culture. Or vice-versa, I suppose.

	16-08-2002 11:31									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer exactly, nationalist... that's my point... no one except black nationalists seem to give a damn about cultural change in the minds of the people to favor education and success...

I personally do. Pat Buchannan does as well, along with the people at the American Cause. It seems that only radicals want to deal with concepts such as cultural change. The two main parties simply seem to bury their heads in the sand and watch the stock market.

	16-08-2002 11:32									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer these are not ungreatful rich boys in the suburbs who would rather smoke weed than pay attention in school...

I've met quite a few of those, and their female counterparts as well. I see no problem with it, though, because the best way to redistribute wealth is to give it to a pack of idiots.

	16-08-2002 11:34									#71
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nationalist:

yeah but that's the thing... if these radical groups could unite, they would be a powerful force in politics. Unfortunately, racial barriers exist between them that need to be broken down.

	16-08-2002 11:37									#72
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Loin: That's the truth. Its funny to me how oblivious the suburban parents are to what their kids are doing. These suburban parents are the parents that I hate. They are the ones who don't think that their little angel can do any wrong, and they belong in the gifted class as much as anyone else. These parents do much harm to the education of those who want to learn, because their children are the ones who persecute others who desire to learn.

	16-08-2002 11:38									#73
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quote: Originally posted by nationalist I go to the College of William and Mary. Its an Ivy Leage school.

Not to be a stickler, but William & Mary is not an Ivy League school. Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, Penn, Princeton, and Yale are the Ivies.

W&M is, however, a very fine school -- the second oldest in North America if I am not mistaken.

	16-08-2002 11:39									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer nationalist: yeah but that's the thing... if these radical groups could unite, they would be a powerful force in politics. Unfortunately, racial barriers exist between them that need to be broken down.

True.

	16-08-2002 11:43									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Kepler Not to be a stickler, but William & Mary is not an Ivy League school. Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, Penn, Princeton, and Yale are the Ivies. W&M is, however, a very fine school -- the second oldest in North America if I am not mistaken.

Yeah, you're right. Its not technically Ivy. Its not in the right geographical area to be an "official" Ivy. Its ranked up with the Ivys though. Princeton review called it the "bootcamp of acadamia." You're also correct about it being the second oldest school in the nation (after Harvard) It was founded in 1693. Thomas Jefferson went there, among others. I was just trying to give a basic description to those who may be unfamiliar with it. Oh well, enough talk about school.

	16-08-2002 11:46									#76
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger Ah well, there's an easy solution to effect cultural change: wait until the anti-intellectualism in the US causes it to be overwhelmed by the intellectualism of a superior culture. Or vice-versa, I suppose.

Dangit. I was all set to say something sarcastic in a similar vein but there is no way I'm going to come up with anything funnier or more dead on than that. Take a bow.

I seriously doubt anti-intellectualism is specific to the US. With our egalitarian (sort of) roots we tend to try to find fault with people who are above average (all wealthy people are corrupt, all smart people are maladjusted, all attractive people are stupid, etc, etc...) but I'm sure you find the same attitudes -- especially anti-intellectualism -- in other countries.

	16-08-2002 18:44									#77
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quote: You want to know why they won't listen? Because they got other **** to deal with... people don't got little nice homes and **** where they can go and do their homework and have their mommy and daddy helping them if they got a problem... plenty of people just plain don't see the need in trying. It's all the same... whether you try or not, you'll have a kid by the time you're 18... so people say f--- that... they ain't trying...

Im raising the Bull **** flag here, a good majority of "not so lucky students" I know are some of the best students in the school its mainly thier "well to do" friends that are into doing things they shouldnt.

the problem is that the majority of students arent shown the value of knowledge when they're young, the majority are babied into thinking that they are the best that they can do anything, thats good and all but thier not being told how to do thier best and how they can do anything until they've already made bad habits that take a lot of work to break. And by then they break down and cry like a ****ing baby when they dont understand anything, all because they "know" that theyre doing thier best, but theyre not even trying.

also those Special ed students ARE NOT A WASTE OF MONEY, the problem is that a good majority of them dont belong in SpEd. The SpEd program should have its own schools, not huge though, just ones that are away from all of the students that will tease them.

What kind of "other **** to do" are you talking about?

	16-08-2002 20:29									#78
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Most of the crap they teach in Highschool is useless knowledge. It doesn't help people get a job nor teach people useful real world skills.

I'm all for education, but a smart guy, who's lazy, un-employed and un-motivated (who likes to belittle others in an online forum for instance) is a lot more worthless to society than a hard working, below average intelligence fellow.

	16-08-2002 20:37									#79
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If it's any consolation, Chinese students don't seem much better (I teach in Shanghai). I have had college students who had no idea where Mexico or Brazil were -- or even worse ... could not identify Vietnam, which borders China to the south.

	16-08-2002 20:41									#80
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Geography just isn't a very good indicator of intelligence.....

I mean it's nice to know, but when am I going to ever need to know where Zaire is or some ****? Unless you're a world traveler, (not a tourist), it's not really all that important to everyday life. More important to know where 42nd street is or something in your own town.

	16-08-2002 20:44									#81
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Zaire sure, but your capital city? Or a basic knowledge of Europe and North America?

	16-08-2002 20:49									#82
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Not to say I don't know these things, but really, why does it matter that much? If a man can read and write and do his job well, what more can society ask?

	16-08-2002 20:54									#83
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nothing much.. except pay taxes and die.

	16-08-2002 20:56									#84
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quote: when am I going to ever need to know where Zaire is

Probably never, considering that it doesn't exist

	16-08-2002 21:01									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Space05us I was in school today and one of the things we were working on was a putting locations on a map. this was in world lit. class so understandably it was an easy assignment. One of the locations was Israel, easy enough right? Wrong, 3 people had absolutely NO CLUE where it was. Another location; Washington DC, simple everyone knows where that is! 2 of the kids labeled Washington State instead... I wasnt sure if I should laugh or worry.

Reminds me of my favourite dumb people story.

First day of Honors Global Studies and we have to fill out a map of the world's continents, oceans, mountain ranges, major nations, etc...

I'm done in about 3 minutes as are my friends. A few people needed the book now and then, for things like "Atlas Mts." or "Dead Sea" but the kicker was when a group of girls, again, in Honors Global Studies couldn't get Africa. I wanted to shoot them....

"Like, oh my God, is like Africa the really big one or some junk? Tee-hee!"

	16-08-2002 21:01									#86
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It doesnt exist?

Maybe you should be on Jays show Boshko....

	16-08-2002 21:01									#87
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Over here, we used to have a TV show called "De Vakantieman" ("The Holiday Man")

Part of the show was going to certain holiday locations to ask people if they could point out on a map where they were.
Twas kinda sad to see that some people thought that Spain was just across the eastern border of the Netherlands...

	16-08-2002 21:04									#88
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Drake: Zaire's now called the Republic of Congo or something like that.

	16-08-2002 21:08									#89
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The name of the decade? What will it be renamed next decade?

I will continue to call it Zaire, because I like it better than the new name. We're talking about the same country here.

	16-08-2002 21:13									#90
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Pouring money into AP and higher level classes doesn't necessarily work either.

My (public) schools system started me on a custom program in third grade, where they pulled me out of classes and made a curriculum specifically for me. I was given at least as much attention as anybody in special ed (and there were more of them, so there was a greater return for the amount of effort). All it did for me was teach me things I already knew and show me how much intelligent people are outcasts in the society. Like Albert et al say, the problem is societal, not educational. Redistributing money won't change anything.