 |
|
Eli
|
|
Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:21
|
|
Zionism is not a religion sherlock.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Sonic
|
|
Vilnius, Lithuania
Dec 2001
time: 07:21
|
|
Communists are atheists, mr. president
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Sonic
|
|
Vilnius, Lithuania
Dec 2001
time: 07:21
|
|
Obviously not all communists are atheists, but most are. So, communist ussual "religion" is atheism and thus I don't need to add communist option (communism is not a religion in fact).
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Ethelred
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Rogan Josh
Why is Baptist included separately from Christian Protestant, but none of the other Protentant subdivisions are? |
Its by far the largest Protestant religion in the US.
quote:
And atheism is most certainly a religion since it makes a statement about the universe which cannot be proven. |
While Atheism is a religious belief it is not a religion since a religion entails a belief in at least some kind of higher power or creator. The active disbelief of many Atheists does not constitute that.
So you can say its a religious belief which I sometimes do just to annoy the hardcore Atheists you cannot call it religion.
This pole really did need an agnostic option. I am not an Aetheist. I have NO religious beliefs not even a disbelief in a god. I just doubt the existence of one and see no need for one to explain the Universe.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Ethelred
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Mad Monk
Hmmm...someone remind me of Einstein's POV on God... |
While Einstein often spoke of god in terms that sounded like he believed in a god it seems mostly matter of putting a label of convenience on his thinking. Think of it as objectifying the laws of nature.
Einstein on this subject:
From
http://www.religioustolerance.org/deism.htm
"My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds. That deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God. "
"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own - a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. It is enough for me to contemplate the mystery of conscious life perpetuating itself through all eternity, to reflect upon the marvelous structure of the universe which we can dimly perceive and to try humbly to comprehend even an infinitesimal part of the intelligence manifested in Nature."
From
http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/ebtomcat.htm
It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
From
http://freethought.freeservers.com/reason/quotes.html
"I have never imputed to Nature a purpose or a goal, or anything that could be understood as anthropomorphic. What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism."
I would guess that he was halfway between an Agnostic and a Deist.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Ethelred
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by loinburger
Atheism covers "doesn't believe in god(s)" as well as "actively disbelieves in god(s)." Often the former is called weak atheism while the latter is called strong atheism. (This is mostly done so that weak atheists don't get lumped together with strong atheists, since most hardcore idiot atheists belong to the latter group.) |
This is nothing but an attempt to blur the distinction between true Agnostics and full blown Atheists. Simply put there a lot of people that call themselves Atheist when they actually Agnostic. Its not the fault of the Agnostics that some people want to blur the distinction or lie and call it fence sitting to try to intimdate Agnostics into going on belief.(See Slowhands Troll thread for further discussion and further attempts to intimidate).
quote:
It's possible to be an agnostic and still believe in god(s), since an agnostic believes that god's existence hasn't been proven or that it can never be proven--it therefore isn't contradictory for an agnostic to believe in god yet still believe that god's existence can never be proven, since belief and proof are two very different things. |
Thats not agnosticism. That would be a weak Deist. That is a, Deist that thinks he may be wrong but understands that he can never know. Unless of course a god should decide to prove its existance, something that would be difficult since it is possible to have godlike entities that only appear to be able to confound the laws of the Universe.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Ethelred
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Boshko
Personally I like infidel, since it sounds stronger than agnostic and you're less likely to get people misintertreting your position and asking questions like "but how can you PROVE that god doesn't exist" with that label... |
Oddly enough Infidel actually has specific meaning but it has been coopted by Christians to mean something exactly the opposite of its original meaning. Its a Arab word and is used to refer to ALL non Moslems. If you aren't Moslem your an Infidel even if you are one of the peoples of the Book (Moslems, Jews, and Christians). Apparently this irked the Crusaders and they took to calling Moslems infidels.
As for people asking that question, well thats point of Agnosticism. You can't prove it and belief is not an issue for the Agnositic as they choose not to go on belief.
The problem is the two terms are somewhat the reverse of their root words. Agnostic is litterly without god and Atheist is literally without religion yet the actuall definitions are the reverse. I can't help that. I am not the cause of that confusion. I just learn to deal with it.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Aeson
|
 |
orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:21
|
|
quote:
An agnostic does not deny the existence of God and heaven but holds that one cannot know for certain whether or not they exist. The term agnostic was fittingly coined by the 19th-century British scientist Thomas H. Huxley, who believed that only material phenomena were objects of exact knowledge. He made up the word from the prefix a-, meaning “without, not,” as in amoral, and the noun Gnostic. Gnostic is related to the Greek word gnsis, “knowledge,” which was used by early Christian writers to mean “higher, esoteric knowledge of spiritual things” hence, Gnostic referred to those with such knowledge. In coining the term agnostic, Huxley was considering as “Gnostics” a group of his fellow intellectuals“ists,” as he called themwho had eagerly embraced various doctrines or theories that explained the world to their satisfaction. Because he was a “man without a rag of a label to cover himself with,” Huxley coined the term agnostic for himself, its first published use being in 1870.
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition |
quote:
gnostic
\Gnos"tic\, n. [L. gnosticus, Gr. ? good at knowing, sagacious; as a n., man that claims to have a deeper wisdom, fr. gignw`skein to know: cf. F. gnostique. See Know.] (Eccl. Hist.) One of the so-called philosophers in the first ages of Christianity, who claimed a true philosophical interpretation of the Christian religion. Their system combined Oriental theology and Greek philosophy with the doctrines of Christianity. They held that all natures, intelligible, intellectual, and material, are derived from the Deity by successive emanations, which they called Eons.
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Jon Miller
|
|
wow, a lot of atheists here (I don't remember past polls being so atheist heavy)
Jon Miller
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Ethelred
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by DeepO
And in my mind, there is a big difference between Atheists and those that don't believe (whether you call these weak atheists are not): Atheists are only those that believe there is no God, and even have proof for it.
DeepO |
No such thing.Can you to show me an Atheist with proof? Real proof, not some delusion, like that life is crap therefor god does not exist sort of nonsense.
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:21.
Apolyton Time is 00:21. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
18-08-2002 15:24
|