19-08-2002 19:57									#121
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quote: Originally posted by Ethelred No your going to use an incorrect definition because you are stubborn.

I'm not stubborn, I'm tenacious.

I've got no real problem with people using the term "agnostic" as a dual metaphysical/epistemological definition, it's just that it seems odd for an agnostic to insist that he/she isn't an atheist. Sure, weak atheists don't want to be lumped in with the hard-core strong atheists, but all the same you don't see the Christians demanding that there be separate categories for "moderate/liberal, non-wacko Christians" and "fundamentalist nutball Christians."

Besides, I've always preferred "secular humanist" over "agnostic," since it's got more of a tax-free sound to it.

	20-08-2002 00:34									#122
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quote: Besides, I've always preferred "secular humanist" over "agnostic," since it's got more of a tax-free sound to it.

John Paul Hardass the First sometimes acts like secular humanism is a communist plot inspired by Lucifer conjoined with Luther and Mohammed and adminstered by Henry VIII.

	20-08-2002 05:36									#123
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quote: I agree with that. However he did exactly what you said you wouldn't want. He wasn't discussing he was prosyletizing.

well, i interpreted it as he was stating his opinion on jesus. Beseides, if he were trying to attack us, we wouldnt want to lower ourselves down to his level, now would we?

quote: My mother would tell them she was Druid and danced naked under the trees. Well she did that once anyway.

quote: quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns I can't believe you are still arguing over the definition of a word. If you are referring to scientology being religious or economical oriented: The difference matters very much. A religion would be protected by the constitution, a economical oriented community can be restricted, or forbidden at all.

Naw, he was refering to the ongoing arguement over agnosticism vs atheism (weak).

	20-08-2002 06:31									#124
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Yay Catholicism, just barely edging out the protestants on the board!

I knew we had a lot of atheists around here... although I didn't see an "agnostic" option so that's really a tossup

	20-08-2002 08:25									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Kramerman well, i interpreted it as he was stating his opinion on jesus. Beseides, if he were trying to attack us, we wouldnt want to lower ourselves down to his level, now would we?

Without the remarks about non-christians OF ALL KINDS going to Hell I might have agreed with you on that. However he did. Any bets Troll thinks Catholics are going to hell also because they aren't christians? I know the kind of thinking that often leads to what Troll posted. Hopefully I am wrong on that part, then again hopefully he will at least lay off claiming Amerinds in the heart of the Amazon that have never even heard the word Jesus are going to Hell for not believing in Jesus as their personal saviour.

I didn't lower myself to his level. I have tried to have discusions with him on this. I was trying again. I am willing to try to open even the most tightly shuttered and adamantine mind. I don't expect to succeed but every once in a while there is a glimmer as the door is at least unbolted even if it remains closed.

Sometimes reason works. Sometimes shock. Sometimes direct confrontation. Sometimes nothing. I can't find out which if I don't try.

	20-08-2002 08:30									#126
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quote: Originally posted by DarthVeda Yay Catholicism, just barely edging out the protestants on the board! I knew we had a lot of atheists around here... although I didn't see an "agnostic" option so that's really a tossup

I think a lot of those the voted Atheist are Agnostic like I am. There was nothing else close.

As for Catholics well maybe some of the Agnostics voted that way instead. A lot of Agnostics are ex-Catholics like I am. Besides there are a lot of non-Americans here and in most of the word there is a higher percentage of Catholics than in America. France and Italy for instance are mostly Catholic.

	20-08-2002 08:40									#127
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quote: Sometimes reason works. Sometimes shock. Sometimes direct confrontation. Sometimes nothing. I can't find out which if I don't try.

ok, go ahead, if its your thing. I personally have found that people who mention Jesus so often tend to be so entrenched in their ways that I dont even bother. To me thats not worth the headache and the often mutual ill feelings between both parties after such a discussion. But, like you said, you enjoy the debate. So try! try! try!

Kman

	20-08-2002 08:44									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Actually...I do. AND Celine Dion. But I love opera, dress impeccably and abhor manual labor. So it's a balance.

Is it fair to say that you love the laborer but hate the labor?

	20-08-2002 10:28									#129
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To quote Malik Shabazz... "If we bring up religion, we'll have differences, we'll have arguements, we'll never be able to get together, but if we keep our religions at home, in our closet, keep our religion between ourselves and our God, we'll have a common fight, against a common enemy"


thanks

	20-08-2002 10:39									#130
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I was raised Lutheran, but lately have drifted towards "I don't really care whether or not there is a god since it doesn't really matter to me."

	20-08-2002 10:48									#131
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Mother was christian, father was atheist (though raised catholic)...I'm somewhere between christian and deist I guess...Not agnostic though.

	20-08-2002 10:48									#132
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quote: Originally posted by ixnay37 I was raised Lutheran, but lately have drifted towards "I don't really care whether or not there is a god since it doesn't really matter to me."

That would clearly be agnostic, in my book.

	20-08-2002 11:05									#133
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Yup, I agree.

	20-08-2002 11:46									#134
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Could be a deist though, as Deists normally wouldn't believe in a personal god. Now a christian god should matter to you if you believed in it.