19-08-2002 04:18									#31
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Epi, no. Prices depend on supply and demand.
As of now, demand is 26. Supply is 31. Food is trading at 84$.

If you offer your 2 food to sell, that increases the supply by 2, making it 33.
New price is 26:33 * 100$ = 79$.

The more people offer to sell, the lower the price goes. Now, if instead you wanted to BUY food... (why I don't know, the only thing I can see worth buying is shields, labour, and commerce) then the demand would increase and prices go up.


DAVOUT,

Ideally yes, if it was genuine waste, but think of it another way. What waste represents in this game is the Black Market. They sell their ill-gotten goods at lower prices (think bootleg dvds and the like) which reduces the demand for our (legitimate) product. The reason we do it this way is that since we're primarily sellers and not buyers, the incentive to reduce waste should translate into higher profits for us. Makes sense?

btw, want to bid for any land? would love to have you help out with the beta game!

	19-08-2002 04:19									#32
	Inflate your Upload Space

labourers are only necessary to convert shields.

	19-08-2002 04:21									#33
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Count me in.

I offer $1000 for lot nr 6, Apolyton NW11.

When will the bidding close?

Last edited by Franses on 19-08-2002 at 04:27

	19-08-2002 04:23									#34
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btw, the building list I put there was only preliminary.
I imagine a silo would be a priority (so that you can stockpile food that you're unable to sell instead of having it disappear). Please feel free to make suggestions. but it's okay, we don't need to get ahead of ourselves.

also, if you don't do anything during the turn, we assume you stockpile. if you know you're going to be away and you don't want to stockpile but still trade, you can also hire another player to act as a "steward" and take care of your property for a fee or percentage of profits. I'm sure there are those who are willing to do so.

	19-08-2002 04:26									#35
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: The more people offer to sell, the lower the price goes. Now, if instead you wanted to BUY food... (why I don't know, the only thing I can see worth buying is shields, labour, and commerce) then the demand would increase and prices go up.

So is the demand for things like food set arbitrarily by someone?

	19-08-2002 04:36									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Kramerman So is the demand for things like food set arbitrarily by someone?

sort of. the base rate for all three commodities and labour is $100. just because it's easy to work with.

the Demand:Supply ratio modifies that base rate. Demand increase prices, supply reduces them. Special buildings allow you to stockpile, and cut away at your competitor's profit.

I tried to compromise between something simple to understand and something dynamic enough to make it interesting.

	19-08-2002 05:07									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Captain DAVOUT, Ideally yes, if it was genuine waste, but think of it another way. What waste represents in this game is the Black Market. They sell their ill-gotten goods at lower prices (think bootleg dvds and the like) which reduces the demand for our (legitimate) product. The reason we do it this way is that since we're primarily sellers and not buyers, the incentive to reduce waste should translate into higher profits for us. Makes sense?

I cannot agree. The cost of the items stollen is included, directly, or indirectly (insurances, guards, protection devices), in the total cost of the items ; as long as the market price is above the total cost, the firms sell, but as soon as the total cost exceed the market price, the firms stop selling.
The incentive to reduce the thefts bears on the public authorities through the loss of taxes not on the commercial or industrial enterprises alone.
There is also the fact that a significant portion of the market must be satisfied, almost at any cost. The comparison with the bootleg dvds is a particular situation of a non vital item bought on the black market at an extremely low price by people who would never had bought at the market price. In this respect, we can observe that the progressive reduction in price is due to the increased quantities sold and not to an extension of the waste.
Last argument, your market price is the white market price ; and the quantities offered on that market are the quantities produced less the waste.

I will sign up as soon as I understand how the game works

	19-08-2002 05:07									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

So if I have only food, and I want to use the food to pay for a silo, what are the steps to take? I don't get it yet :P

	19-08-2002 05:15									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Epistax So if I have only food, and I want to use the food to pay for a silo, what are the steps to take? I don't get it yet :P

I think you would have to either find someone willing to trade shields for your food, or you could sell your food and buy shields. Then once you have enough, you would have to sell your food in order to get money to hire a worker, who could covert those shields into a silo. This is if I understand it correctly.

	19-08-2002 05:22									#40
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Here is a map with the prices listed. I think red shows up
best, comments welcomed.

	19-08-2002 05:36									#41
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Second try here it is. Here is a map with the prices listed. I think red shows up best, comments welcomed.

Attachment: land prices.jpg
This has been downloaded 79 time(s).

	19-08-2002 05:44									#42
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I'll buy that land just north or termina. The one being worked.
Aggie

	19-08-2002 05:58									#43
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thanks aggie, the map is very helpful

	19-08-2002 06:11									#44
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I want to join and will buy:

021 Tassagrad W: $200

And If we can have two then

018 Tassagrad SE: $200

	19-08-2002 06:14									#45
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Aggie.. I already put $350 on that one...

N of Termina, $350
NW of Termina, $250

Current bids

Last edited by Epistax on 19-08-2002 at 06:23

	19-08-2002 06:18									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Sheik I want to join and will buy: 021 Tassagrad W: $200 And If we can have two then 018 Tassagrad SE: $200

you can buy up to three as long as the total value doesnt exceed $1000. Otherwise you can only buy one.

	19-08-2002 07:33									#47
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I'd like to join. I bid $1100 for 006 (Apolyton NW 11). Sorry Franses, but that's just such a nice tile. We are bidding, not buying, right?

quote: Originally posted by Captain Warehouse (10 shields): Allows stockpiling 10 more shields or commerce.

Do you have to declare whether a warehouse stores commerce or shields, or can one store both?

Example: I have one warehouse. I'm storing 11 shields and 9 commerce. I generate 2 shields and 2 commerce.

Do I lose one commerce point since I'm already using the warehouse for shields? Or do I store it all, since that's just 3 shields over 10 + 1 commerce over 10 = 4 units of storage out of the warehouse's 10?

	19-08-2002 07:34									#48
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Could I have some help figuring out how you know which slot is which? I mean, for instance, looking at the map that Aggie posted, how do you know what Apolyton NW means? How do you tell the 500 property from the various 1,000 and 1,200 properties that also are NW of poly?

Trying to figure this out -- thought the point of computer games was that you DIDN'T have to do complicated math .

-- adaMada

	19-08-2002 08:03									#49
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

One thought... is there any way to stop, under this system, someone from placing a last second bid outbidding their compitition by the lowest possible amount? (If my understanding of the system is correct, that would be a problem.)

I think the best way to prevent that is by not setting a specific 'end time', and instead just saying "the turn will end at some point after 6 PM Friday". That way, if anyone has any legit business to do, they'll do it before then, but posting at 5:59 on Friday won't be effective, since the turn probably won't end at exactly 6. (The exact time of the turn's ending would vary turn to turn, and not be publicly announced). I know this system seems clumsy, and probably is a bit unfair, but it's the only way I can think of to prevent 'last second bidding' type cheeting.

I'm actually not a huge fan of the idea I just posted above, so please -- if anyone's got any other way to stop this, or if I understand wrong and it's not a problem, I'd be quite happy to hear it.

-- adaMada

	19-08-2002 08:03									#50
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quote: Originally posted by adaMada Could I have some help figuring out how you know which slot is which? I mean, for instance, looking at the map that Aggie posted, how do you know what Apolyton NW means? How do you tell the 500 property from the various 1,000 and 1,200 properties that also are NW of poly? Trying to figure this out -- thought the point of computer games was that you DIDN'T have to do complicated math . -- adaMada

The unnumbered directions are the tiles adjacent to the city. The other twelve tiles are given a number. They starts with the top northeast tile, which is called NE 1, and continues to NW 12, the top NW tile.

Thus, the tile east of poly would be Apolyton E. The tile east, then northeast would be Apolyton NE3. West, then Southwest of poly would be Apolyton SW9.

	19-08-2002 08:18									#51
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I can't tell which lo numbers they are, but I want these two tiles for the Gazette Ranch.

I offer 250 for the northern one and 200 for the southern one.

Attachment: gazette ranch.jpg
This has been downloaded 66 time(s).

	19-08-2002 09:40									#52
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I bid 1200 on Apolyton SW (forest,road).

Captain, why are there 2 #3's?

	19-08-2002 09:44									#53
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Im gonna build a ranch on my land... a brothel ranch. It will feature the 'Boom Boom Coral'

Kman

	19-08-2002 12:49									#54
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I like horses and I need food. $1000 for 001.

	19-08-2002 14:02									#55
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actually I 'll withdraw my plans to hire a worker I want to pay off my loan first

	19-08-2002 16:25									#56
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Kloreep
I'd like to join. I bid $1100 for 006 (Apolyton NW 11). Sorry Franses, but that's just such a nice tile. We are bidding, not buying, right?

Sou you found out, Kloreep? I hate you!
Since I always stick to my first impulse, I bid $1200 for 006 (Apolyton NW11).

	19-08-2002 17:58									#57
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Captain,

Some thoughs :

- The quantities offered on the market are the Q produced less waste + or minus the variation of inventory (the quantities stockpiled are not yet on the market) ; omitting the stockpiling effect would reduce to almost nothing the positive effect traders have on the market price, and artificially create a systematic negative effect of the reduction of inventory.
- The theory of the black market does not resist to examination: the pop is strictly proportional to the available food; the wasted food has no effect on pop at all (unless it creates a black pop? ) ; in fact, in a primitive economy the waste is considerable, as it is in a communist economy, where personnel responsibility is diluted or inexistent ; the example of petrol lost in Siberia due to poor maintenance is well known.
- The size of the empire would justify several market prices; the prices are not the same in an area with high wastes than in the capitol city; this would make possible for the players to sell their goods on the most profitable market, after due consideration given to the transport costs. As a market by city does not appear practical, what about a market by province?
- The flat percentage premium for the workshop does not seems realistic: my plumber does not reduce his hourly rate when the market price of the copper decreases! Either there is a market for manufactured products, or forget the workshops.

This is of course just some ideas worth 1 Apo each!

	19-08-2002 19:05									#58
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Bids to date!

001 NYE $1000
002 MrWIA $1000
003 Jonny $1200
004 Spiffor $500
005
006 Franses $1200
Kloreep $1100
007
008
009 Epistax $350
010
011 Rendelnep $1020
012 Epistax $250
jdd2007 $200
013 UnOrthOdOx $250
jdd2007 $200
014 UnOrthOdOx $200
jdd2007 $200
015 jdd2007 $200
016
017
018 Sheik $200
019
020
021 Sheik $200
022
023
024
025
026
027
028
029 Kman $1500

I am bidding for 002 - Apolyton NE $1000 and 025 Tassagrad NW12 $220

EDIT: Updated: UnOrthO was right - can't buy multiple sites for more than $1k. Bugger

Last edited by MrWhereItsAt on 19-08-2002 at 20:13

	19-08-2002 19:06									#59
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MrWIA, I believe you can only bid on more than one if it is under 1000. If not, I want to add a tile. Anyone confirm that?

And nice work on the list. 13 and 14 eh?

	19-08-2002 19:19									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

In the future, you might allow reserving of land outside the culture.

I didn't notice if water is claimable, but I think it should be.