21-08-2002 02:45									#121
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Auction was supposed to end in 1 or 2 days from now. (3 days from Sunday, but does that count sunday?)

REgardless, what do you (the bidders) want? I can end it sooner. Tomorrow would be fine. Tuesday okay?

	21-08-2002 02:46									#122
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Davout, sorry to disappoint you. I understand what you're saying but I'm not going to change it without a solution to replace it with. Can you suggest one that would not have as a consequence that we end up encouraging waste and corruption?

	21-08-2002 02:54									#123
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Im happy. I am ready to start whenever everyone else is.

	21-08-2002 03:01									#124
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Ending tomorrow sounds good to me. Are others able to join later?
If someone bids higher just before closure such that his competator is not able to define a new bid, I suggest that the competitor may still opt for the tiles that are not sold. Of course this is automatically solved if others are able to join later.

Perhaps in the final game we should organize two or three auctions selling 50%/33% of the tiles per auction. That way those who lost out in the first auction get a second/third chance.

	21-08-2002 03:13									#125
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

We shoulda done it the way the US did: At the starting bell, everyone run out and claim territory, first come first serve.

Yes, we really did do it that way. Why? It was bad land that no one would want, unless it was free and we made a fuss about it.

	21-08-2002 03:17									#126
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Epistax We shoulda done it the way the US did: At the starting bell, everyone run out and claim territory, first come first serve. Yes, we really did do it that way. Why? It was bad land that no one would want, unless it was free and we made a fuss about it.

yup. If the land wasnt free, it was dirt cheap (that was the decent land). Alotta people made alotta money by land speculation. Thats what I would do if we used that system, but we dont.

	21-08-2002 03:53									#127
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

This is just a beta version, right? After we the major kinks worked out we restart the real version?

	21-08-2002 04:25									#128
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I would like it if beta just meant none of the rules currently are final, and no funds you have are sure to say. I would hope properties stay under the same control, and many more will be available soon.

	21-08-2002 04:57									#129
	Put an end to popups!

quote: suggestions anyone? what do we do with all the money we're going to accumulate, besides use it to make more money? is there any way to splurge? sponsor your own library wing perhaps?

this is role playing, right? well, only an idiot would not spend money [there arent any here.] look, when we have lots of money, people will start building enourmous mansions, and all types of things. they will hire their own army (outside the game) bribe people, and pay [ever-increasing] taxes. if i had hundreds of thousands of Lytons, here is what i would do:

-buy an ENOURMOUS house
-buy winter homes in the mountains
-buy summer homes by the sea
-get properties in various cities
-construct monuments to past leaders
-buy the Jungle Gazette
-get a monopoly on the banana trade
-make a fleet of ships
-hire a bunch of people
-pay my way on long trips around Abanaba

as you can see, no one will have piles of Lytons around when you have the $ to construct ever more magnificent homes.

	21-08-2002 07:13									#130
	Remove this text

Sine I'm not showing up on the lists, and I hadn't really made a definitive decision before, I might as well go ahead and do it now (it's only a beta )... I'll take 005 for $1,200

-- adaMada

	21-08-2002 10:26									#131
	Inflate your Upload Space

Changed my bid to $225 on tiles 15 and 22. Figured since I called my company "Apolotonian Weapon Works", I ought to try to stay close to Apolyton.

Last edited by GhengisFarb on 21-08-2002 at 20:04

	21-08-2002 10:40									#132
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Captain suggestions anyone? what do we do with all the money we're going to accumulate, besides use it to make more money? is there any way to splurge? sponsor your own library wing perhaps?

When conquering the world in the real game we might stumble upon some nice artifacts e.g. the golden shield of .... or the magic bowl of ..... Some of the rich people might buy these artifacts on an auction and make all the others jealous. Of course, everybody wants his own mansion in Paris (if we ever conquer that) and who does not eventually want to buy a summer house on the beaches of Apolyton?

	21-08-2002 14:38									#133
	Get a bigger avatar today!

If I understand it correctly there will always be more food then needed. Why not add a brewery (building, cost: 60 shields) that converts 1 food into one barrel of beer. Demand will be 1 barrel per head count.

Similarly we could add a black smith. A black smith requires a building and one unit of labor. The black smith provides horseshoes and gear for knights, spearman, swordsman etc. Of course the black smith is no longer needed in case we get more advanced and do not longer use horses. Instead we build infantery and tanks. In that case ammunition factories are needed.

We could also add extra production facilities to the tiles. For example you might plant banana trees in jungle tiles, sheep on grasslans etc. You have to buy the banana trees/sheep first and after that the banana's/wool can be sold to the people. Or will it become to complicated this way?

Last edited by Franses on 21-08-2002 at 14:47

	21-08-2002 16:49									#134
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

2 Questions:
1. Must warehouses be declared to be for commerce or shields when built, or do they work for either?
2. Is one laborer able to turn one shield to production per turn or do you have to hire new ones every turn? Because gettting say 10 laborers to build a warehouse is pretty much impossible at this stage of the game. FOr example, I will have 5 shields in 5 turns. Say then I hire 2 laborers. In 5 more turns I would have a warehouse, each turn one laborer would use a shield from the 5 i had stored and the other would use the new one that is produced that turn.

	21-08-2002 18:20									#135
	Got spare money?

Here are the current lands STILL AVAILABLE IN BOLDYou purchase no more that 3 tiles (borrowing money from the government) and if you wish to borrow more than $1000 you can purchase only one tile. (IE, the only way you can purchase more than one tile is to buy a buch of unimproved jungle.)



001 Apolyton N (horse, grass, rd), $1000
....$1000...NYE
002 Apolyton NE (mined grass rd), $1000
....$1100...Franses
....$1000...MrWIA
003a Apolyton SW (forest, rd), $1200
....$1200...Jonny
003b Apolyton W (forest, rd), $1200
....$1200...Spiffor
004 Apolyton NW (grass), $500
....$525...GhengisFarb
005 Apolyton NW10 (mined forest rd), $1200
....$1200...adaMada
006 Apolyton NW11 (mined grass rd), $1000
....$1400...Kloreep


007 Apolyton NW12 (mined grass rd), $1000

008 Apolyton NE1 (mined grass rd), $1000
....$1000...civman2000
009 Termina N (jungle), $200
....$500...Epistax

010 Termina NE (mined grass rd), $1000

011 Termina E (mined grass rd), $1000
....$1020...Rendelnep
012 Termina NW (jungle), $200
....$250...Epistax
013 Termina NE1 (jungle), $200
....$250...UnOrthOdOx
014 Termina NE2 (jungle), $200
....$200...UnOrthOdOx
015 Termina NE3 (jungle), $200
....$225...GhengisFarb

016 Tassagrad N (mined grass rd), $1000

017 Tassagrad NE (jungle), $200

018 Tassagrad SE (jungle), $200
....$200...Sheik

019 Tassagrad S (grass rd, mine?), $1000

020 Tassagrad SW (mined grass rd), $1000

021 Tassagrad W (jungle), $200
....$200...Shiek

022 Tassagrad NW (jungle), $200

023 Tassagrad NW10 (jungle), $200
....$250...jdd2007
024 Tassagrad NW11 (jungle), $200
....$250...jdd2007
025 Tassagrad NW12 (jungle), $200
....$250...jdd2007
026 BHQ N (mountain), $200[/b]
....$225...GhengisFarb

027 BHQ NE (jungle), $200

028 BHQ S (jungle), $200

029 BHQ SW (mined grass rd river), $1500
....$1500...Kman
030 BHQ W (mined grass rd river), $1500
....$1500...Captain

031 BHQ NW (mined grass river), $1500

Last edited by GhengisFarb on 23-08-2002 at 17:52

	21-08-2002 21:03									#136
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Any chance of us ending the auction before they "play the next 5 turns" tonight. It might have an effect on property values.

	21-08-2002 22:30									#137
	Inflate your Upload Space

Unless anyone has any further bids in the next hour, this auction is closed. Congratulations on your new properties! welcome to the ranks of the landowning gentry. Remind that your interest free-loan period ends in 10 turns, after which 10% interest will be charged.

Anyone not winning their first choice can purchase remaining properties here in this thread according to the same rules. (Essentially, the auction is continual, it goes on, but the first batch of properties will be sold. In the future, we will continue to auction off properties so that more people may join at any time. However, their bids are subject to an initial minimum 24 hrs of competition so that anyone else who wants to bid on the same property has a chance to. Example: If MrWIA doesn't get his tile this time, he can bid on another - and assuming no contest within 24 hrs, it's his.)

I'll be posting the first Market Assessment soon, which will mark the start of our 1st turn. If they play another 5 turns within 1 day, we'll have another Market Assessment tomorrow. Get your trading cap on!

I may also reassess Land values if things change.

	21-08-2002 23:05									#138
	Put an end to popups!

Here are the winning deals, along with the other offers. If no further replies within an hour, we'll assume they're confirmed.

NOTE: I renamed the 3's: 3a and 3b.
Winning bidder in bold green.[/b]

001 Apolyton N (horse, grass, rd), $1000
....$1000...NYE
...$1100... Genghis Farb - withdrawn

002 Apolyton NE (mined grass rd), $1000
....$1100...Franses
....$1000...MrWIA

003a Apolyton SW (forest, rd), $1200
....$1200...Jonny

003b Apolyton W (forest, rd), $1200
....$1200...Spiffor

004 Apolyton NW (grass), $500
....$550...GhengisFarb
...$500...Spiffor (withdrawn)

005 Apolyton NW10 (mined grass rd), $1000
....$1200...adaMada

006 Apolyton NW11 (mined grass rd), $1000
....$1400...Kloreep
....$1320...Darth Viper (agent for Franses)
...$1300...Kloreep
...$1200...Franses
...$1100... Kloreep
...$1000....Franses

007 Apolyton NW12 (mined grass rd), $1000

008 Apolyton NE1 (mined grass rd), $1000
....$1000...civman2000

009 Termina N (jungle), $200
....$500...Epistax
....$450...GhengisFarb...(withdrawn)
...$350...Epistax

010 Termina NE (mined grass rd), $1000

011 Termina E (mined grass rd), $1000
....$1020...Rendelnep

012 Termina NW (jungle), $200
....$250...Epistax
... $200...jdd2007 (withdrawn)

013 Termina NE1 (jungle), $200
....$250...UnOrthOdOx
... $200...jdd2007 (withdrawn)

014 Termina NE2 (jungle), $200
....$200...UnOrthOdOx
... $200...jdd2007 (withdrawn)

015 Termina NE3 (jungle), $200
....$225...GhengisFarb

016 Tassagrad N (mined grass rd), $1000
017 Tassagrad NE (jungle), $200

018 Tassagrad SE (jungle), $200
....$200...Sheik

019 Tassagrad S (mined grass rd), $1000
020 Tassagrad SW (mined grass rd), $1000

021 Tassagrad W (jungle), $200
....$200...Sheik

022 Tassagrad NW (jungle), $200
....$225...GhengisFarb

023 Tassagrad NW10 (jungle), $200
....$250...jdd2007

024 Tassagrad NW11 (jungle), $200
....$250...jdd2007

025 Tassagrad NW12 (jungle), $200
....$250...jdd2007

026 BHQ N (mountain), $200
... $225...GenghisFarb...withdrawn

027 BHQ NE (jungle), $200
... $225...GenghisFarb...withdrawn

028 BHQ S (jungle), $200

029 BHQ SW (mined grass rd river), $1500
....$1500...Kman

030 BHQ W (mined grass rd river), $1500
...$1500... Captain (conflict of interest as Gov't Agent, withdrawn)

[b]031 BHQ NW (mined grass river), $1500

Last edited by Captain on 21-08-2002 at 23:29

	21-08-2002 23:05									#139
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

10 econ turns (every 2 days) or 2 game turns? (no one has a clue)

	21-08-2002 23:16									#140
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Franses If I understand it correctly there will always be more food then needed. Why not add a brewery (building, cost: 60 shields) that converts 1 food into one barrel of beer. Demand will be 1 barrel per head count.

Idea sounds good to me! Let me offer this instead:
Brewery (20 shields) converts up to 3 food into 3 barrels of beer at a 1 food:1 beer ratio. Requires 1 labour to operate brewery. Beer demand will be 1 barrel per head count. Base price for beer will be $250.

quote: Similarly we could add a black smith. A black smith requires a building and one unit of labor. The black smith provides horseshoes and gear for knights, spearman, swordsman etc. Of course the black smith is no longer needed in case we get more advanced and do not longer use horses. Instead we build infantery and tanks. In that case ammunition factories are needed.

sounds like a good idea, except are we trying to arm ourselves in this game? If so, what for? To fight wars? I'm not sure we have a mechanism for using military force against other players (do we even want something like that? why not let business savy be the rule, instead of military prowess?)

Every product must have a reason to exist... we need to be able to do something with it. I am just not sure I like the idea of what we might be able to do if we start trading weapons as commodities... but I'm open to solutions.

quote: We could also add extra production facilities to the tiles. For example you might plant banana trees in jungle tiles, sheep on grasslans etc. You have to buy the banana trees/sheep first and after that the banana's/wool can be sold to the people. Or will it become to complicated this way?

I think we should leave tile production as it is. Otherwise it gets too confusing.

What we could do, is that these facilities transform our basic generic commodities into more valuable, specific commodities. For example: we already have shields being converted by labour into more valuable buildings. We have food converted by labour into more valuable beer. What can we do with commerce/merchandise/trade goods?


(Note: beer may be more worthwhile, but if everyone has a brewery and floods the market with supply... and if labour prices skyrocket... it may cost more to produce the beer than you'd get in return. So I think the "invisible hand" will guide our market to just the right balance. people will have to think up new industries, new products, and new buildings as we go along. But let's not get TOO far ahead of ourselves yet. Let's just make sure what we have now works, and add a bit at a time.)

	21-08-2002 23:18									#141
	Inflate your Upload Space

10 Econ turns.

1 Econ turn every 2 days, unless there are game turns played in between. Whenever there is a change in the game, there will be a new turn, to a maximum of 1 turn per day.

Does that make sense? If not, let me know and I'll try to rephrase.

	21-08-2002 23:29									#142
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by civman2000 2 Questions: 1. Must warehouses be declared to be for commerce or shields when built, or do they work for either? 2. Is one laborer able to turn one shield to production per turn or do you have to hire new ones every turn? Because gettting say 10 laborers to build a warehouse is pretty much impossible at this stage of the game. FOr example, I will have 5 shields in 5 turns. Say then I hire 2 laborers. In 5 more turns I would have a warehouse, each turn one laborer would use a shield from the 5 i had stored and the other would use the new one that is produced that turn.

1. No. 20 spaces for any product. You can store 20 shields, or 20 commerce, or 10 of each, or 15 of one and 5 of the other, or whatever. The total is 20. You do not need to declare anything.

Cash is automatically stored. No warehouse space is needed for cash.

2. Each labourer provides 1 unit of labour per turn. 1 Unit of labour is required to turn 1 shield into part of a building.

Say you want to build a silo. It costs 10 shields. Assume you produce 1 shield per turn. You can hire 1 labourer for 10 turns and in ten turns your silo will be done.

Or you can wait 5 turns until you have 5 shields, and then hire 2 labourers for the remaining five turns to complete your silo.

Or to rush it, maybe you buy 10 shields on the market. Then to build the silo immediately, you'd need to hire 10 labourers that turn. You can imagine how rushing projects might be more expensive... but then again, you have an advantage sooner than your rivals, and maybe you could make more profit that way. Who knows. That's the challenge.

Hope that helps.

	22-08-2002 00:09									#143
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

one point to clear up

we dont manually have to auction off our food every day, do we?

	22-08-2002 00:25									#144
	Tired of ads?

yes and no.

you can hire the banker to do that work for you. if you know you're going to be away, I suggest you hire someone to act in your interest.

or if someone knows how to program it... they would be entitled to a lot of compensation.

otherwise, it's the honour system. if you didn't offer to sell food in that turn, then there's no such deal. remember that food is almost always going to be in high supply, and that only a certain amount of buyers are available.

say there's 13 heads = 26 demand and 31 food supplied by default. If all of you decide to sell your food, say ballpark another 24 food, that makes it 50 food supplied in total. The default price drops to 13:55 = $24 per unit. Remember that only 26 food are demanded, so 29 (=55-26) food units won't be sold. To make sure it's your food that gets sold, you need to be selling amongst the 26 lowest prices.

looks like at the start, you'll all be poor!

good thing shields and commerce sell for more... and can be stockpiled.

	22-08-2002 00:28									#145
	Put an end to popups!

ok. i will hire anyone who can do the trades for me everyday. u get 5% (can be negotiated)

	22-08-2002 00:30									#146
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

jdd2007, you may as well start your own first turn though. the trades thread is up.

	22-08-2002 00:42									#147
	Increase Your PM Length

Your status:

notyoueither
Land acquired: 001 Apolyton N (horse, grass, rd)
Debt: $1000

Franses
Land acquired: 002 Apolyton NE (mined grass rd)
Debt: $1100

Jonny
Land acquired: 003a Apolyton SW (forest, rd)
Debt: $1200

Spiffor
Land acquired: 003b Apolyton W (forest, rd)
Debt: $1200

GhengisFarb
Land acquired: 004 Apolyton NW (grass), 015 Termina NE3 (jungle), 022 Tassagrad NW (jungle)
Debt: $1000 (550+225+225)


adaMada:
Land acquired: 005 Apolyton NW10 (mined grass rd)
Debt: $1200

Kloreep
Land acquired: 006 Apolyton NW11 (mined grass rd)
Debt: $1400

civman2000
Land acquired: 008 Apolyton NE1 (mined grass rd), $1000
Debt: $1000

Epistax
Land acquired: 009 Termina N (jungle), 012 Termina NW (jungle)
Debt: $750 (500+250)

Rendelnep
011 Termina E (mined grass rd)
Debt: $1020

UnOrthOdOx
Land Acquired: 013 Termina NE1 (jungle), 014 Termina NE2 (jungle)
Debt: $450 (250+200)

Sheik:
018 Tassagrad SE (jungle), 021 Tassagrad W (jungle)
Debt: $400 (200+200)

jdd2007
Land acquired: 023 Tassagrad NW10 (jungle), 024 Tassagrad NW11 (jungle), 025 Tassagrad NW12 (jungle)
Debt: $750 (250+250+250)

Kramerman
Land acquired: 029 BHQ SW (mined grass rd river), $1500
Debt: $1500


In light of a slowing economy, the government hereby extends the grace period from 10 turns to 15 turns. Interest will accrue at a rate of 10% starting the 16th turn.

	22-08-2002 01:04									#148
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Trade thread located here:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=59648

	22-08-2002 02:54									#149
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Captain 10) Revised Basic Buildings List: because of questions and suggestions received Silo (10 shields): Allows stockpiling up to 20 food. Warehouse (10 shields): Allows stockpiling 20 items total of either shields or commerce. Inn (40 shields): Converts 1 food and 1 merchandise into cash for 150% of the market price per turn*. Shop (50 shields): Allows you to sell up to 3 commerce per turn for 20% more*. Workshop (50 shields): Allows you to hire up to 3 labourers per turn for 20% less than the current rate*. Bank (100 shields): Allows the owner to LEND and store CASH, in addition to the regular commissions earned as described in post above. House: Houses are built in increments of 10 shields per level of splendour. Increases Property Value of tiles. Can be mortgaged for cash if a banker is willing. *Means you post prices and offers in accordance with the rates, but if your deal goes through, at that time, you add your bonuses.

What is the "merchandise" on the inn?

	22-08-2002 03:07									#150
	Increase Your PM Length

uh... gift shop?



we can change that for sure. what should it be?
maybe inns convert up to 3 food per turn into some kind of cash? requires 1 labour (regardless of amount converted).
let's say innkeepers who also sell beer can increase the cash amount?

only thing is, how do we determine what the cash amount is?

well, again, the buildings ideas need work, but luckily it'll be a while before any of us can build them. keep posting suggestions!