24-08-2002 03:06									#211
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GF: When my debt is paid, will I be allowed to purchase shelf / water squares the same way we do land squares? By your map they are available, and they work by your formula.

1 Food, 2 Commerce:
$200 + $400 + $50 + $100 = $750

This IS extremely expensive for a tile that cannot be improved outside of city improvements, but I am still interested in self squares.

	24-08-2002 09:15									#212
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep I like the general idea, but I don't think there should be such a heavy penalty for having a few good tiles rather than a bunch of mediocre ones. Maybe it should stop at 150 for the fourth commodity, and 150 for all commodities after that.

When sc369 starts charging $10 tax per tile 1 territory is a big advantage. Tiles with many resources will also have priority to be improved as they will provide greater benefit to the Civ3 game. The formula comes real close to the values in the original auction and I think the people who bought the high production/variety of resources tiles have an advantage.

quote: Originally posted by civman2000 1. DON'T CAPITALIZE THE "c"!!!!!! 2. It's 2000, not 2001 3. Actually, the deal was that you jsut pay me $175 a turn (from any source) and get all profits from the land

Sorry, will try to correct it. Paid the $175 into your account.

quote: Originally posted by Epistax GF: When my debt is paid, will I be allowed to purchase shelf / water squares the same way we do land squares? By your map they are available, and they work by your formula. 1 Food, 2 Commerce: $200 + $400 + $50 + $100 = $750 This IS extremely expensive for a tile that cannot be improved outside of city improvements, but I am still interested in self squares.

I don't know, hopefully some other members will put some input/suggestions in.

Maybe water rights could be leased for say a 5 turn period. That would give the Government Agent something to do. (gotta keep him busy so he doesn't get bored and start invoking hurricanes, bubonic plague, and the dreaded 90% tax rate )

	24-08-2002 09:54									#213
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I agree that the turns are going fast, as said by kramer.

Suggestions:

A different thread for each 2 day turn. These should quickly vanish from the forums as not to pollute.

An ending time/date listed for each turn.

When each turn ends, a time/date listed for the next turn to start.



Speaking of which, when does the next turn start?

Additional Question:

If I purchase a shield, do I need to wait a turn to purchase labor to work on it?

Last edited by Epistax on 24-08-2002 at 10:15

	24-08-2002 10:04									#214
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Hey I'd like to join, Private Message me with the details if it's not too late.

	24-08-2002 10:19									#215
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quote: Originally posted by Epistax I agree that the turns are going fast, as said by kramer. Suggestions: A different thread for each 2 day turn. These should quickly vanish from the forums as not to pollute.

I agree.

quote: Originally posted by Epistax An ending time/date listed for each turn. When each turn ends, a time/date listed for the next turn to start. Speaking of which, when does the next turn start?

I had mentioned holding another one tomorrow, if I don't get in contact with Franses, I may just start one as the Market Assessment won't change until Sunday. I'd rather Franses start it in a new thread though.

I started a Main Thread for the $Mini-Game and plan on posting all active links in it so you should be able to look at the first post, and click the green trading session link to go directly to the active thrading session.

Last session we had mentioned it ended EXACTLY 24 hours from the time on the opening post. It's hard to post times as different people are in different time zones. Franses should just post that the session ends in EXACTLY 48 hours or whatever and then any post after that time won't be counted.

quote: Originally posted by cdinkle Hey I'd like to join, Private Message me with the details if it's not too late.

NOTE: THERE IS STILL OPEN LAND AVAILABLE FOR ANYONE INTERESTED IN JOINING THE $MIN-GAME NOW

	24-08-2002 10:33									#216
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Where is some land that I can bid on/buy?

All I see is land other people have bought.

	24-08-2002 10:42									#217
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quote: Originally posted by cdinkle Where is some land that I can bid on/buy? All I see is land other people have bought.

The tiles in bold that do not have an owner's name under them are still available.

	24-08-2002 10:53									#218
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Hey, Captain, Franses, and GhengisFarb, yall especially have put alot of work into this. Ive been out of the loop for awhile (oh, id say Ive missed about the last 4 pages....) but have skimmed through and about got back up to date. Your efforts are sure to make the game alot of fun.

As a possible upgrade to improvements, how about an inn being upgraded into a brothel?.

Also, i read some speak about merging. I would like to propose some of us early land owning gentry (Skywalker, unless he gets in on the game soon, he is gonna have no 'real' cash or plantation....sucker ) form a guild, where we can organize and try to help each other manipulate the supply and demand to the betterment of the members of the guild. Would anyone be interested in a such an organization? It might even double as a psuedo-political party, where we could collectively lobby ministers to our advantage... heh. Please post or pm me if anyone has interest.

Kman

	24-08-2002 10:59									#219
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oh, and does anyone on this thread know the status of government leased land? I bid on some, and dont want to start having to pay rent on them before I know there under my control to exploit. Ive already lost quite abit of money so far due to inactivity...

	24-08-2002 11:33									#220
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I had mentioned holding another one tomorrow, if I don't get in contact with Franses, I may just start one as the Market Assessment won't change until Sunday. I'd rather Franses start it in a new thread though. Last session we had mentioned it ended EXACTLY 24 hours from the time on the opening post. It's hard to post times as different people are in different time zones. Franses should just post that the session ends in EXACTLY 48 hours or whatever and then any post after that time won't be counted.

OK, I will start one late this evening (GMT+1) since I will be off tomorrow morning. I noticed that post traffic is at its minimum (close to 0) at around 10.00 GMT. So I suggest that we end trading sessions at that time giving everybody the possibility to alter its deals in peak traffic time. In each new session I will post the date and time the session ends in GMT. I prefer the 24 hour sessions but since some of the nobles experience that as to fast the next session will last two days (not necessarily 48 hours because IMO the start time is not as important as the closing time and this gives me some flexibility).

	24-08-2002 11:38									#221
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quote: Originally posted by Kramerman Hey, Captain, Franses, and GhengisFarb, yall especially have put alot of work into this. Ive been out of the loop for awhile (oh, id say Ive missed about the last 4 pages....) but have skimmed through and about got back up to date. Your efforts are sure to make the game alot of fun. As a possible upgrade to improvements, how about an inn being upgraded into a brothel?. Also, i read some speak about merging. I would like to propose some of us early land owning gentry (Skywalker, unless he gets in on the game soon, he is gonna have no 'real' cash or plantation....sucker ) form a guild, where we can organize and try to help each other manipulate the supply and demand to the betterment of the members of the guild. Would anyone be interested in a such an organization? It might even double as a psuedo-political party, where we could collectively lobby ministers to our advantage... heh. Please post or pm me if anyone has interest. Kman

I am interested. Depends on details of course.

	24-08-2002 11:40									#222
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quote: Originally posted by Kramerman oh, and does anyone on this thread know the status of government leased land? I bid on some, and dont want to start having to pay rent on them before I know there under my control to exploit. Ive already lost quite abit of money so far due to inactivity...

This deal has been cancelled (at least for now). To many things were changing at the same time.

	24-08-2002 12:14									#223
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb PROPOSED BUILDINGS PHASE ONE Thought I'd post them for discussion before making a poll for everyone to vote yay or nay to their existence. Phase one will consist of buildings to modify the three basic commodities: food, shields, and commerce. I envision us opening a second market at the end of the grace period with new landowners (those not yet participating) allowed a 20% discount on the final bid price. Previously unsold land from Market 1 included. Then, introducing Phase 2 with buildings creating NEW products like liquor(Distillery), weapons(Armory), etc. Probably introducing caravans and trade fleets to allow intermarket trade. I hope that if we go step by step it will go more smoothly. ANYWAY PHASE ONE BUILDINGS: Storage SILO (Costs 6 shields/labor) stores up to 20 food. STOREHOUSE (Costs 10 shields/labor) stores up to 20 nonfood commodities. Profit Bonus TAVERN (Costs 10 shields/labor) allows you to sell up to 2 food per turn at a 50% bonus. SHOPPE (Costs 15 shields/labor) allows you to sell up to 2 commerce per turn at a 50% bonus. SMITHY (Costs 20 shields/labor) allows you to sell up to 2 shields per turn at a 50% bonus. Conversion BREWERY (Costs 15 shields/labor) Requires 1 labor to operate and converts up to 2 food into commerce. (1 food converts to 1 commerce) WORKSHOP (Costs 25 shields/labor) Requires 1 labor to operate and converts up to 2 shields into commerce. (1 shield converts to 2 commerce) You have to choose the city you build these in, if that city is ever captured its assumed your businesses in the city are lost. Labor has to be hired from the city you're building/operating in. Alternate bonus method: Instead of the 50% bonus, the bonus would be determined by the pop of the city. A size 4 city would allow a 40% bonus, up to a max 50% bonus. Comments/Suggestions.

The proposed cost for buildings is way to high. I made some calculations on this:

A land owner bought his property for about $200 per commodity. Selling a commodity provides him about $50 return each turn. That means a gross profit of 25%, which seems reasonable.

Building a Smithy costs 20 shields and 20 labour, which at the current prices for shields and labour amounts to a total price of about $2200.
The owner gets a bonus of 20% on two commodities sold. which at the current prices is about $60 per turn for a total gross profit of approximately 3%. Who would ever want to do that?
So I suggest to lower building costs substantially. My proposal is:

Silo: 1 shields/labor
Storehouse: 2 shields/labor
Tavern: 3 shields/labor
Shop: 3 shields/labor
Smithy: 4 shields/labor
Brewery: 6 shields/labor (does not require labor to operate)
Workshop: 8 shields/labor (does not require labor to operate)

I believe we must be able to convert the current commodities to something else. To keep it simple in phase one I want to add a trade post to the poll. A trade post converts up to 2 commerce in cash (1 commerce converts to $50). Proposed cost of the trade post: 10 shields/labor.

	24-08-2002 17:52									#224
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I think storage buildings should be built on a tile you own, not in the city (do farmers have their silos and store their food in town?)

	24-08-2002 17:57									#225
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I disagree, I sold 5 food last session at $44 each. With a Tavern I could sell two food at a 50% bonus, that's an extra $44 per turn, or a FREE FOOD SALE.

I think it should take a player several turns to build something, but could see increasing the amount of product affected.

Change Tavern to (5 s/l-Shield/Labor)
Can upgrade it to an Inn (affects twice as many food) for (10 s/l)

I would also rather it be determined by POP of settlement, for examply Apolyton is 4 Pop, a tavern in Apolyton would affect 4 food per turn. For each additional tavern in city affects drop by 1.

If there were two taverns each would affect Apoly's Pop (4) - 1 (each could affect up to 3 Food) because of the competition. This way the first builders get an advantage and it discourages later nobles from building in a city that has lots of competition.

Course, if we change the product markets, we'll have to tweak the buildings again.

	24-08-2002 20:30									#226
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I asked before, but no answer:

If a buy a shield, may I buy labor for the shield on the same turn I buy it?

Also, beginning each turnthread, we should state the current game year. I assume Turn 3 is 510-530 BC (same as the one before).

	24-08-2002 20:41									#227
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I think you may but I do not know what happens if you fail to buy the shield. I would expect the labor to be wasted in that case.

The game year is mentioned at the start of the thread (second line after Market Assessment header).

	24-08-2002 20:44									#228
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Good Point, and yes you can buy labor the same turn you buy a shield.

Here's what I came up with for who owns what:
Current Land Holdings..........
1)adaMada
2)Captain
3)civman2000
4)Darkness' Edge
5)Duddha
..."Dudeville"
6)Epistax
..."Epistan Plantation"
7)Franses
8)GhengisFarb
...a)"Ghengis Mountain"
...b)"Jungleister"
...c)"Apolyfield"
9)jdd2007
..."The Jungle Farm"
10)Jonny
11)Kloreep
12)Kramerman
..."Kramerman's Brothel Ranch"
13)Nimitz
14)notyoueither
..."The Mustang Ranch"
15)Rendelnep
..."Sam's Minor Land Holding"
16)Shiek
17)skywalker
18)Spiffor
..."Woodworks"
19)UnOrthOdOx
..."The Gazette Ranch"
I probably made mistakes but I tried to be as accurate as possible.

Attachment: deeds market2.gif
This has been downloaded 113 time(s).

Last edited by GhengisFarb on 22-09-2002 at 07:35

	24-08-2002 20:50									#229
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Wow. That's very useful. Thank you so much for posting that image.

-- adaMada

	24-08-2002 20:58									#230
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That is exactly what I was looking for. Great.
Together with the info from my Excel spreadsheet this should give us a good overview. Below I try to post this info again. Let's see it is readable this time:

EDIT: In fact is not. Does anyone know a good way to publish an Excel page here without having to write my own table?

Tile Owner Price Food Shields Comm. City
001 notyoueither $1,000 2 0 2 Apolyton
002 Franses $1,100 2 2 1 Apolyton
003a Jonny $1,200 1 2 1 Apolyton
003b Spiffor $1,200 1 2 1 Apolyton
004 GhengisFarb $525 2 0 0 Apolyton
005 adaMada $1,200 2 1 1 Apolyton
006 Kloreep $1,400 2 2 1 Apolyton
007 Apolyton
008 civman2000 $1,000 2 1 1 Apolyton
009 Epistax $500 1 0 1 Termina
010 Termina
011 Rendelnep $1,020 2 1 1 Termina
012 Epistax $250 1 0 0 Termina
013 UnOrthOdOx $200 1 0 1 Termina
014 UnOrthOdOx $200 1 0 0 Termina
015 GhengisFarb $225 1 0 0 Termina
016 Tassagrad
017 Tassagrad
018 Shiek $200 1 0 0 Tassagrad
019 Tassagrad
020 Tassagrad
021 Shiek $200 1 0 0 Tassagrad
022 Tassagrad
023 jdd2007 $250 1 0 1 Tassagrad
024 jdd2007 $250 1 0 1 Tassagrad
025 jdd2007 $250 1 0 1 Tassagrad
026 GhengisFarb $225 0 1 0 BHQ
027 BHQ
028 BHQ
029 Kramerman $1,500 2 1 2 BHQ
030 BHQ
031 BHQ
Total produced 28 13 16

	24-08-2002 23:11									#231
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Frances: Do a tab delimited table (sp), and post in []code brackets.

GF: I want gonna do that picture!

Unorth: I recognize your desire to own land around termina (I recognize your reasoning). As long as you don't enter bidding wars with me I may eventually (eh long time) sell some land off. Why don't you go after whoever is SE for now?

	24-08-2002 23:20									#232
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quote: Originally posted by Epistax GF: I want gonna do that picture!

What the... Are them fighting words.....?

quote: Originally posted by Epistax Unorth: I recognize your desire to own land around termina (I recognize your reasoning). As long as you don't enter bidding wars with me I may eventually (eh long time) sell some land off. Why don't you go after whoever is SE for now?

Between obviously wanting the two tiles next to the river, and trying to campaign for the water tiles along the shore, I can't help but wonder if you're trying to prepare to separate from Apolytonia and establish a small independant state like Monte Carlo or something.......

	24-08-2002 23:24									#233
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lol.. anyway...

Are we allowed to trade between ourselves with no reaction by supply and demand? Also say, selling entire buildings and land, without it altering anything else?

Of course both sides would have to publically agree to all these kinds of deals, but I just want to make sure it wouldn't effect others.


Will there be a sales tax on any of that stuff?

	24-08-2002 23:52									#234
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quote: Originally posted by Epistax lol.. anyway... Are we allowed to trade between ourselves with no reaction by supply and demand? Also say, selling entire buildings and land, without it altering anything else? Of course both sides would have to publically agree to all these kinds of deals, but I just want to make sure it wouldn't effect others. Will there be a sales tax on any of that stuff?

Currently, NO TAXES.

Any future possibilty of taxes and their discussion will have to be voted on by the players and pass with over a 50% vote.

You should be able to sell your land, buildings , whatever between players during trade sessions, I think the buyer should make an offer in the trade session, and the seller confirm it.

At that point its a done deal, unless BOTH parties agree to call it off.

	25-08-2002 12:58									#235
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Could someone post a list of exactly what lots are left over?

like in the original post, where it listed the location, terrain, improvements, etc...

	25-08-2002 18:10									#236
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Here are the current lands STILL AVAILABLE IN BOLDYou purchase no more that 3 tiles (borrowing money from the government) and if you wish to borrow more than $1000 you can purchase only one tile. (IE, the only way you can purchase more than one tile is to buy a buch of unimproved jungle.)



001 Apolyton N (horse, grass, rd), $1000
....$1000...NYE
002 Apolyton NE (mined grass rd), $1000
....$1100...Franses
....$1000...MrWIA
003a Apolyton SW (forest, rd), $1200
....$1200...Jonny
003b Apolyton W (forest, rd), $1200
....$1200...Spiffor
004 Apolyton NW (grass), $500
....$525...GhengisFarb
005 Apolyton NW10 (mined forest rd), $1200
....$1200...adaMada
006 Apolyton NW11 (mined grass rd), $1000
....$1400...Kloreep


007 Apolyton NW12 (mined grass rd), $1000

008 Apolyton NE1 (mined grass rd), $1000
....$1000...civman2000
009 Termina N (jungle), $200
....$500...Epistax

010 Termina NE (mined grass rd), $1000

011 Termina E (mined grass rd), $1000
....$1020...Rendelnep
012 Termina NW (jungle), $200
....$250...Epistax
013 Termina NE1 (jungle), $200
....$250...UnOrthOdOx
014 Termina NE2 (jungle), $200
....$200...UnOrthOdOx
015 Termina NE3 (jungle), $200
....$225...GhengisFarb

016 Tassagrad N (mined grass rd), $1000

017 Tassagrad NE (jungle), $200

018 Tassagrad SE (jungle), $200
....$200...Sheik

019 Tassagrad S (grass rd, mine?), $1000

020 Tassagrad SW (mined grass rd), $1000

021 Tassagrad W (jungle), $200
....$200...Shiek

022 Tassagrad NW (jungle), $200

023 Tassagrad NW10 (jungle), $200
....$250...jdd2007
024 Tassagrad NW11 (jungle), $200
....$250...jdd2007
025 Tassagrad NW12 (jungle), $200
....$250...jdd2007
026 BHQ N (mountain), $200[/b]
....$225...GhengisFarb

027 BHQ NE (jungle), $200
....$200...Darknesss' Edge
028 BHQ S (jungle), $200
....$200...Darknesss' Edge
029 BHQ SW (mined grass rd river), $1500
....$1500...Kman
030 BHQ W (mined grass rd river), $1500
....$1500...Captain

031 BHQ NW (mined grass river), $1500

Last edited by GhengisFarb on 26-08-2002 at 16:45

	26-08-2002 09:17									#237
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I'd like to purchase 027 and 028. How do I go about doing this?

	26-08-2002 15:52									#238
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Darkness' Edge: Very likely GhengisFarb will pick up your request. If not PM him.

I suggest we let this thread die.

I suggest to concentrate on the last trade thread for trading, the main thread and directory for discussions, polls and (if needed) some dedicated threads. This to avoid cluttering the forum and make it easier for the nobles to find all relevant posts.

	26-08-2002 16:53									#239
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quote: Originally posted by Darkness' Edge I'd like to purchase 027 and 028. How do I go about doing this?

You now have 027, 028, $0, $400 Debt (16 turns to pay back before yo have to start paying the 10% interest), and your total production is 2 Food per turn.

	26-08-2002 17:30									#240
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quote: 010 Termina NE (mined grass rd), $1000

This should be SE. Check on the map. You didn't list a SE, you already mentioned NE. Besides, the description matches SE not NE.