22-08-2002 03:19									#151
	Put an end to popups!

Ok lets recap.


Only Food to Building Silo

1) Trade food for $$$
2) Buy shields (10)
3) Buy labor

Now a silo takes 10 shields, so does it take 10 labor? That seems like an awful lot of money, so I'd like some sort of confirmation.

	22-08-2002 04:01									#152
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Captain Well, again, the buildings ideas need work, but luckily it'll be a while before any of us can build them. keep posting suggestions!

Proposed changes in bold

10) Revised Basic Buildings List:

because of questions and suggestions received

Silo (10 shields): Allows stockpiling up to 20 food.
Warehouse (10 shields): Allows stockpiling 20 items total of either shields or commerce.

Tavern (35 shields) Coverts 3 food into commerce(product) per turn. Requires 1 labor to operate.

Inn (40 shields): Converts 2 food into cash for 150% of the market price per turn*. Requires 1 labor to operate.

Shop (50 shields): Allows you to sell up to 3 commerce per turn for 20% more*.

Workshop (50 shields): Allows you to hire up to 3 labourers per turn for 20% less than the current rate*.

Bank (100 shields): Allows the owner to LEND and store CASH, in addition to the regular commissions earned as described in post above.

House: Houses are built in increments of 10 shields per level of splendour. Increases Property Value of tiles. Can be mortgaged for cash if a banker is willing.


*Means you post prices and offers in accordance with the rates, but if your deal goes through, at that time, you add your bonuses.

	22-08-2002 04:02									#153
	Suffering from ads?

NEW UPDATE

Improvements in granary construction techniques means more storage space for less materials and work.

Price of silo drops to 6 shields (6 labour).
Stores up to 20 food!

	22-08-2002 04:12									#154
	Full PM-box? Change here!

the inn doesn't really seem worth it, does it?
2 food at 150% market price, for the cost of 1 labour? might be really expensive.

how about an inn in a city receives $100 per head of population there per turn? costs 1 food per head and 1 labour to operate. maximum capacity 6 heads.

if ther'e more than one inn per city, you have to split the market between you.

next level: hotel

	22-08-2002 04:18									#155
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Captain sounds like a good idea, except are we trying to arm ourselves in this game? If so, what for? To fight wars? I'm not sure we have a mechanism for using military force against other players (do we even want something like that? why not let business savy be the rule, instead of military prowess?) Every product must have a reason to exist... we need to be able to do something with it. I am just not sure I like the idea of what we might be able to do if we start trading weapons as commodities... but I'm open to solutions.

What I meant was that if in the real game horses are build their is a demand for military gear, which in our mini game may then be supplied by the black smith.

	22-08-2002 04:24									#156
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Captain the inn doesn't really seem worth it, does it? 2 food at 150% market price, for the cost of 1 labour? might be really expensive. how about an inn in a city receives $100 per head of population there per turn? costs 1 food per head and 1 labour to operate. maximum capacity 6 heads. if ther'e more than one inn per city, you have to split the market between you. next level: hotel

Let's decrease the Inn's cost to 30 shields , requires no labor (all you need is an Innkeeper - we're just reaching the Middles Ages) and increases price of 2 food 150%.

Add HOSTEL (same as inn only bigger) costs 50 shields can affects up to 5 food.

Hostel is a better value for the money but you have to build it for a lot longer before you can use it. Inns cannot be upgraded to hostels.

How about the Tavern, it takes grain (food) and converts it into liquor product (commerce). Maybe rename it Brewery.

I'd like to avoid creating city markets for a while until the regional one is pretty routine.

	22-08-2002 04:39									#157
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PUBLIC NOTICE:

When I was doing all the bid postings I accidently switched one of bids I didn't mean to.



I purchased tile 022 Tassagrad NW (jungle) and should have bid on 026 BHQ N (mountain) the prices were the same, and no one else bid on either one, but captain requested I post it here to see if anyone has a problem.

Note: this would reduce me from the Food Magnate (I alone produce 4 food) to tying jdd2007 at 3 per turn.

	22-08-2002 04:46									#158
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

We could merge with each other, right? i might consider this, if anyone else is interested.

	22-08-2002 05:04									#159
	Put an end to popups!

I would be interested in a merger with someone to form either Flancrest Enterprise, or CompuGlobalMegaMart under these conditions of the merger:

Both subsidiaries remain separate aside from--
Heads sharing duties of oversight at times when RL is taxing game time (so that no one loses a turn),
and help eachother on large and small purchases, and debts. If either side seems to be digging itself in a hole, the deal is off.

Any takers? This is basically mutual insurance.


I have also thought of selling stock

Last edited by Epistax on 22-08-2002 at 06:06

	22-08-2002 05:09									#160
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I agree. To your conditions as well. With one of my own. You have to do the day to day work...

	22-08-2002 05:10									#161
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

what should we call it?

not ... whatever you suggested ... maybe banana ... or jungle ... something ...

	22-08-2002 05:28									#162
	Inflate your Upload Space

I would be interested in a loose partnership as the 3 of us (jdd2007, Epistax, and me) are the only ones who will produce more than 2 food each (Epistax should be producing 3 by the end of tonight with his jungle getting cleared). Sorta like the Big 3 in America (GM, Ford, and Chrysler) we could look after each others interests when one of us can't be there.

	22-08-2002 06:02									#163
	Tired of ads?

GhengisFarb,

although in general we should stay away from the city markets we only have 4 cities in the beta so it wouldn't be that confusing if we did use them.

how about this?

Proposed Revised Building List
Estate Buildings:
Silo (6s): stores up to 20 food
Warehouse (10s): stores up to 20 non-food items
Brewery (20s): converts up to 4 food per turn into 4 beer; operating cost = 1 labour per turn (beer is a new market)
Workshop (20s): converts up to 2 shields per turn into 6 commodities, a 1:3 ratio; operating cost = 1 labour per turn


City buildings:
Tavern (12s): Sells beer to townspeople at a 20% bonus*, demand=1 per head in town, base rate $100
Inn (20s): Sells food and beer to townspeople at a 20% bonus*. Capacity 6 heads of demand.
Hostel (35s): Sells food and beer to townspeople at 20% bonus*, capacity 12 heads of demand. Takes precedence over inns in market share. Requires 1 labour to operate.
Shop (20s): Receive a bonus 20%* on whatever commodities you manage to sell.
Blacksmith/Armoury (30s): Converts 1 shield or 1 commodity into 1 weapons for 1 labour per turn. Demand for weapons = 1 per military unit in region. not sure about this, suggestions? what do you think, Franses?

*In your proposed deals, offer your regular prices. If your deal goes through at the end of the turn, then add on your bonus.

I foresee that as we progress in this game, there'll be more and more specialty goods. I suggest a general rule that any generic good can be made into a specialty good with labour, and equipment & knowhow (represented by a building, or something). Specialty goods should always have lower demand than generic goods.

	22-08-2002 06:32									#164
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Sadly my jungle square was only roaded (Although I remember it being chopped for some reason, oh well). I'll have 2 food and 1 trade. First thing I'll do is kill off my debt asap, then I'll see about reserving fishing rights SW of my plantation (and building a silo).

If we build silos and take turns selling larger amounts, do we somehow get more money? hmm gotta crunch numbers

	22-08-2002 07:41									#165
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

What happened to the 50 -150% bonus, at a 20% bonus I'll get a whole extra 8 gold per food it'd take me 100 to 200 turns to break even! No way is anbody going to waste money building that.

I can see 4 city markets but lets not keep adding all kinds of new products. Workshops converting shields to commerce and breweries converting food to commerce is simple. We can change it to something more complicated later.

How about a building to improves one's sell price:
Market-50% bonus on up to 2 food per turn.
Shop-50% bonus on up to 2 commerce per turn.
Smithy-50% bonus on up to 2 shields per turn.

Conversion buildings
Brewery-converts up to 2 food to 2 commerce per turn, requires 1 labor to operate.
Workshop-converts up to 2 shields to 4(2 each) commerce per turn, requires 1 labor to operate.

Make labor city specific, you have to hire labor from the city you're building in, that's also where you'll have to hire labor to operate your conversion buildings. Estate labor can come from anywhere as they have to be hauled to your estate to work anyway.

After the beta (grace period) we can expand into subcategories of commerce.

	22-08-2002 07:50									#166
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All these new building ideas are good, but don't make the game too complex. We don't want it to be too confusing.

	22-08-2002 07:52									#167
	Inflate your Upload Space

Conversion buildings sound good.
Brewery (15s)
Workshop (25s)

Buildings to improve sell price should be more like:
Grocery/Food Market (15s) - 50% bonus on up to 2 food per turn.
Shop (20s) -50% bonus on up to 2 commerce per turn.
Smithy (30s) -50% bonus on up to 2 shields per turn.

all else sounds good, esp the labour. but it might be harder to track. can't have a brewery in Apolyton and workers from BHQ working there.

also, markets/shops/smithys should be city-specific too. instead of the bonus being 50% flat, why not have it as a function of city population? Say, 10% per head of population up to 50% max?


--- only 2 more posts to go til King! but I don't want to spam to do it! never have yet, must be a King with integrity! ---

	22-08-2002 07:56									#168
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Jonny, don't miss out on the first turn of the beta game! We've started trading already.There'll be a new Market Assessment starting turn #2 by early tomorrow. Get your deals in before then, otherwise, food will just spoil. Go here to trade. The first few posts explains it all, and you can follow other peoples examples.

	22-08-2002 08:11									#169
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Captain all else sounds good, esp the labour. but it might be harder to track. can't have a brewery in Apolyton and workers from BHQ working there.

That's the beauty of it, if Apolyton's population is 5 then that's the labor market, instead of fighting for market share in Apolyton, the limits are set by the labor and the more players trying to operate in a specific city the less profitable it becomes.

quote: Originally posted by Captain also, markets/shops/smithys should be city-specific too. instead of the bonus being 50% flat, why not have it as a function of city population? Say, 10% per head of population up to 50% max?

That's a good idea.

	22-08-2002 11:30									#170
	Got spare money?

Posted by Captain
Blacksmith/Armoury (30s): Converts 1 shield or 1 commodity into 1 weapons for 1 labour per turn. Demand for weapons = 1 per military unit in region. not sure about this, suggestions? what do you think, Franses?

How about :
Blacksmith/Armoury (30s): Converts 1 shield or 1 commodity into 1 weapons for 1 labour per turn. Demand is equal to number of military units build in the last turn. Sells at $300,- each

	22-08-2002 13:55									#171
	Increase Your PM Length

OK. I'm well fed. Now, how do I pay the loan?

	22-08-2002 15:52									#172
	Tile and production overview Inflate your Upload Space

Influenced by the amount of work put in by Captain and GF I produced a very simple Excel file containing:

1. Tile number
   
2. Owner
   
3. Price at which the tile was bought
   
4. The number of food, shields and commerce the tile currently produces
   
5. The city the tile belongs to
   

This list gives you an overview of the current estates and their production.

The number of food, shields and commerce is totalled. You can use this figure to calculate the lowest possible default price. That is in case everybody sells everything.

I saved the file as a web page and tried to post it here. That did not work so I am now trying to find out how to attach it.

If you guys like it, I am willing to update it in case Apolyton worker actions change anything (of course against a reasonable fee )

Feel free to ask to add information to the file (e.g. the tile improvements like silo's etc).

It would be very nice if this information could be supported by a map that shows the tile numbers. I tried to install Adobe photoshop but failed (forgot the serial number ). But I have seen others that are able to do that in a much better way than I can so if you feel producing and maintaining that......

Last edited by Franses on 22-08-2002 at 16:08

	22-08-2002 16:22									#173
	Full PM-box? Change here!

OK, I can not attach a file in edit mode nor can I directly upload an Excel or htm file, so here is a zipped version of the Excel file.

Attachment: mini-game.zip
This has been downloaded 6 time(s).

	22-08-2002 18:06									#174
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Franses OK, I can not attach a file in edit mode nor can I directly upload an Excel or htm file, so here is a zipped version of the Excel file.

Jungle tiles produce 1 food and no commerce unless they have a road or river, and I purchased tile 22, not 25, but that will change to tile 26 at the end of this economic turn.

	22-08-2002 18:10									#175
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

May I make a suggestion?

I was thinking on this a bit, and I would like the Gazette somehow represented in this.

What about 'mini wonders'

Only one can be built.

Gazette Offices: Requires: Estate must first have warehouse and shop must be built on Jungle tile.
Effects: Somehow converts food to $ Possibly based on subscriber list? (currently ~ 75) Number of food converted based on number of literate citizens? (some minimum also)

Other possible mini wonders:

War Academy

Machiavelli Inst.

Thinkers guild

Adam Smith Foundation

Also, if someone wants to do a little prediction of the prices, for upcomming turns I will do a 'stock' section in the paper like Food: $45 Shields: $75 Commerce: $65 Or something.

	22-08-2002 19:14									#176
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx May I make a suggestion? I was thinking on this a bit, and I would like the Gazette somehow represented in this. What about 'mini wonders' Only one can be built. Gazette Offices: Requires: Estate must first have warehouse and shop must be built on Jungle tile. Effects: Somehow converts food to $ Possibly based on subscriber list? (currently ~ 75) Number of food converted based on number of literate citizens? (some minimum also) Other possible mini wonders: War Academy Machiavelli Inst. Thinkers guild Adam Smith Foundation Also, if someone wants to do a little prediction of the prices, for upcomming turns I will do a 'stock' section in the paper like Food: $45 Shields: $75 Commerce: $65 Or something.

How about
Gazette Offices (city specific- has to be built in each city)
Can sell x (x=size of city) food at y% increase (y=current literacy rate). Requires 1 labor per 4 food sold (distribution-newsboys, etc.)

The others are more like organizations you would donate to support, I don't really see them making money.

ALSO:
When we open other regions, how about keeping product region specific. If you wish to sell shield produced in one region in the market of another region you would have to have a caravan or something that would transport it.

	22-08-2002 19:20									#177
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Jungle tiles produce 1 food and no commerce unless they have a road or river, and I purchased tile 22, not 25, but that will change to tile 26 at the end of this economic turn.

I do not understand your remark about tile 22. In my version tile 22 is yours and 23,24 and 25 are jdd's.

Hm, I did mess up with the number 12,13,14 and 15. The rest seems to be OK (but keep checking, please). Latest version attached.

Edit: Changed 22 to 26 as being your property in this new version.

	22-08-2002 19:22									#178
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franses my name isn't on there -I think I own tile 11

Last edited by rendelnep on 22-08-2002 at 19:46

	22-08-2002 19:32									#179
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Frances, you got some wrong (sorry)Tiles 12 to 15 are marked as having zero food, 1 commerce. I'd suggest reversing those.

I like the use of excel however.

	22-08-2002 19:42									#180
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Rendelnep, you are right of course. I added that in the new version that I will upload later (more errors might come in).

Epistax, I did make the (what I think) necessary corrections already in the version two posts above being:

12 1-0-0
13 1-0-1
14 1-0-1
15 1-0-1

13 - 15 are along a river that's why. Although, UOOO nor GF seem to realise this. So do I have the wrong tiles here?

By the way UOOO's proposed deal is for 12 and 13. This should be 13 and 14, right?