29-08-2002 00:55									#331
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quote: Originally posted by blackice I am an Albertan, I lived throught it, and will bring it up when I like. Mind you I will not act like an idiot they you two do when it is dicussed.

An Albertan is someone who lives in Alberta -- Ontario != Alberta.

I realize not all people were hit by the NEP as bad as others (you obviously were not), but you should still have some common sense since you know how the people here react to it.

quote: I am an Albertan, you do not see me acting like the government propaganda puppet.

No, you are not an Albertan, and no, you don't act like a government propaganda puppet -- you're a lunatic fringe anti-female who puts on this facade of someone advocating equal rights for everyone.

quote: At not time do I believe it was done to punish Albertans, as you would have us believe.

I never said ANY such thing, in fact if you'll look up I said I'm sure Trudeau thought it was honestly good for Canada. The fact remains it was a huge economic and political blunder for him and the Liberals, regardless of intentions.

quote: It was not soley responsible for the economy at the time. This is all just weak minded drivel from a few weak minded Albertans.

Actually, it's coming straight from you. No one here has said it was soley responsible for the economy at the time, it was just soley responsible for making a bad situation 10 times worse. As quotes provided by NYE of economics professors and associations (who know slightly more about this than you do) have shown.

quote: Yes remember everyone when Asher losses a debate, the victor then becomes semi-coherent and rambling and a lier.

Actually you're always semi-coherent (if we're lucky), and you haven't won a thing. All of your "facts" were shot down by NYE and you responded with one-liners about how NYE should stick to one liners after. Very classic, btw, and it put a smile on my face.

quote: Proven wrong, where? your a joke really you are. Care to prove your moronic trolling NYE does not seem to have the *uts to do it.

Oh come on, blackice, you're a moron who thinks everyone else is dumber than you. That's the truth. You went and found the fastest growing small town in Alberta with the lowest vacancy rates and highest rent, assumed a minimum wage worker wanted to rent a 4-bedroom apartment, and actually tried to use it in an argument about how Alberta is evil and doesn't care about poor people.

I'm not sure just how stupid that looks to anyone reading it.

"Flake" is right, but you're misdirecting that comment.

	29-08-2002 01:28									#332
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quote: An Albertan is someone who lives in Alberta -- Ontario != Alberta.

Yes Asher, I have lived there longer than you have been alive. Go Girl you tell me what it is!

quote: I realize not all people were hit by the NEP as bad as others (you obviously were not), but you should still have some common sense since you know how the people here react to it.

I was hit so was everyone out east HELLO EARTH TO ASHER...

quote: common sense

You call acting like the two of you common sense. that explains a lot. No the fools who believe the government propaganda are just that fools.

quote: No, you are not an Albertan,

Sure am Canadian too and proud of it, unlike some ungrateful spoiled brats.

quote: and no, you don't act like a government propaganda puppet

Nope try it just takes a little reading...

quote: you're a lunatic fringe anti-female who puts on this facade of someone advocating equal rights for everyone.

See you do get use out of that book...How many time have you read it?

quote: As quotes provided by NYE

Oh ya that rag you two claim to be the god all to end all of informative reading. Weak really.

quote: " were shot down by NYE

They were? the unintellegent one-liner did not even get his facts right. Nothing was shot down he just looked more stupid than he already does. You you bought it. What doe that say for you?

quote: Oh come on, blackice, you're a moron who thinks everyone else is dumber than you

No i point out the dumb things people believe, like you for instance.

quote: You went and found the fastest growing small town in Alberta with the lowest vacancy rates and highest rent, assumed a minimum wage worker wanted to rent a 4-bedroom apartment, and actually tried to use it in an argument about how Alberta is evil and doesn't care about poor people

Your minimum wage is lower than here and your rent is as high. That article is old. CBC did a special on it not to long back did you watch it? Half of Canada did. Do you know how much of an idiot you like like now? You just have to do some research, ahh I bet you did that is why you are not posting anything to back your opinion.

Here try this one, I could go all night, http://www.calgaryunitedway.org/agencies/agencies6.html

This Is Calgary:

quote: Highest average rent of any city in Canada. Average one-bedroom apartment: over $600 Average two-bedroom apartment: almost $750 For a person working full time at minimum wage, rent would have to in the $315 range to be affordable (estimating 30 percent of income as an affordable amount to pay for shelter). One in five Calgarians lives in a low-income household (20.6 percent). Specific population groups suffer particularly high rates of poverty compared to Calgary's average. The incidence of poverty among children, youth and the elderly is comparatively high: 25% of young people in Calgary live in poverty - 40,000 children and 30,000 youth. Almost 30% of people over the age of 75 live in poverty.

Yup you guys sure own that one. Again for bragging about all that you do why is one kid there poor? Klien of course.

You were saying Asher, er flake.

	29-08-2002 01:42									#333
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Yes Asher, I have lived there longer than you have been alive. Go Girl you tell me what it is!

That's not the point, the fact that you don't live here now means you're not an Albertan. That's just how it works.

quote: I was hit so was everyone out east HELLO EARTH TO ASHER...

People out "east" were not hit by the NEP *NEARLY* as bad as the West.

quote: Sure am Canadian too and proud of it, unlike some ungrateful spoiled brats.

You are NOT Albertan. Albertans are people who RESIDE IN ALBERTA, and who can vote in PROVINCIAL ELECTIONS IN ALBERTA. You live in Ontario, not Alberta, you are not an Albertan, you used to be years ago.

quote: See you do get use out of that book...How many time have you read it?

The book is about lying with statistics, just how is me calling you an anti-female fringe element have anything to do with that?

quote: Oh ya that rag you two claim to be the god all to end all of informative reading. Weak really.

So you would consider an association full of dozens of PhDs in economics to be "weak" when they talk about economics? Rather you resort to your own anecdotal evidence as a former BASF glue-sniffing executive and said it didn't do much bad for the West?

quote: They were? the unintellegent one-liner did not even get his facts right.

He certainly did. In fact he used your own sources against you, because you were selectively quoting to mislead people. Like taking a couple small towns in Alberta with above average poverty rates and comparing this to a national average, when in reality the overall poverty rate in Alberta is 1% below the national average...

You were shot down, and pretty badly, and you don't even know it.

quote: Your minimum wage is lower than here and your rent is as high.

You're changing your tune. The fact is you deliberately used outrageous statistics from an older article to mislead everyone, and you were busted.

The minimum wage here IS lower, but so is the consumer price index and taxes, and our unemployment is also lower. I don't see why you're crying bloody murder that people are poor -- some people are poor, that's just how it is in a capitalist society.

quote: That article is old. CBC did a special on it not to long back did you watch it? Half of Canada did. Do you know how much of an idiot you like like now? You just have to do some research, ahh I bet you did that is why you are not posting anything to back your opinion.

HAH! The article was one YOU CITED, blackice.
You linked to it, I read it, and I laughed and shot down your pathetic attempts to mislead everyone.

quote: This Is Calgary: Yup you guys sure own that one. Again for bragging about all that you do why is one kid there poor? Klien of course. You were saying Asher, er flake.

blackice, do you understand what happens when your city is the fastest growing large city in Canada? You do have higher rent during the period of extreme growth. It's not a problem with Alberta, it's a problem with not being able to keep up with the record influx of new people which results in higher rent.

I'm through with you, this is so beyond hopeless and you honestly believe all of this crap you're spewing. Whatever, people have a right to believe what they want, regardless of how wildly inaccurate and misleading it is.

	29-08-2002 01:45									#334
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quote: 9/12/01 Some homeless families are sleeping in tents because of Red Deer’s high rents and low vacancies, says an affordable housing advocate. Patricia Turnbull, acting executive-director of the Red Deer Housing Society, said she knows of two families with three children each - one led by a single dad and one by a single mom - who are camping out with heaters this fall because they can’t find affordable apartments. Even though overnight temperatures have fallen near zero, a third family in a similar situation was tenting until recently at the Burbank campground near Blackfalds.

Reddeer asher

quote: The cost of living in Edmonton is very high.

UOfA Student information for foriegn workers.

I do not feel I need to provide links, you know why Asher because you read it in the papers there everyday. It is the same in Ontario because Harris did what Klien did. You read that book well Asher

	29-08-2002 01:48									#335
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Red Deer is also booming, blackice. In fact nearly every city in Alberta is experiencing record growth, which is why rent is high, it has absolutely nothing to do with Klein.

BTW, if you know so much about this, how come you repeatedly spell Klein's name wrong?

	29-08-2002 01:58									#336
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quote: That's not the point, the fact that you don't live here now means you're not an Albertan. That's just how it works

Most canadians would disagree with you totally as I do.

quote: People out "east" were not hit by the NEP *NEARLY* as bad as the West.

You have said this twice now and each time I ask you to back it up *link* please. This is just an opinion of yours and it's not correct.

quote: You are NOT Albertan. Albertans are people who RESIDE IN ALBERTA, and who can vote in PROVINCIAL ELECTIONS IN ALBERTA. You live in Ontario, not Alberta, you are not an Albertan, you used to be years ago.

I am from Alberta and I am an Albertan.

quote: The book is about lying with statistics, just how is me calling you an anti-female fringe element have anything to do with that?

You know the book well I see. How many people have told you including me I am not anti-female, that is just getting old Asher grow up.

quote: glue-sniffing

You have said this twice now, I have never sniffed glue. i have better links and provided better information than a rag newspaper woth an Alberta slant. Give it up it is weak Asher.

quote: He certainly did. In fact he used your own sources against you, because you were selectively quoting to mislead people. Like taking a couple small towns in Alberta with above average poverty rates and comparing this to a national average, when in reality the overall poverty rate in Alberta is 1% below the national average... You were shot down, and pretty badly, and you don't even know it.

You are such a moron, the whole point is Asher you are by far the richest province and have a higher poverty rate than BC. He proved nothing eccept he can not read. You prroved your as big an idiot as him.

quote: You're changing your tune. The fact is you deliberately used outrageous statistics from an older article to mislead everyone, and you were busted.

Busted what an idiot take the two bed room and the skyhigh cost of living up there now do that with minimum wage. The only thing busted here is your ego.

quote: The minimum wage here IS lower, but so is the consumer price index and taxes, and our unemployment is also lower. I don't see why you're crying bloody murder that people are poor -- some people are poor, that's just how it is in a capitalist society.

Not according to any information any where but in your head.

quote: You linked to it, I read it, and I laughed and shot down your pathetic attempts to mislead everyone.

Delusion and denial you have a grasp of those for sure.

quote: I'm through with you, this is so beyond hopeless and you honestly believe all of this crap you're spewing. Whatever, people have a right to believe what they want, regardless of how wildly inaccurate and misleading it is.

The facts are the facts you look like an idiot, I admire you are cutting your losses. Save face boy, you can not provide any links or information just your opinion. You know why because it does not exsist. There is no information to back your dellusions.

	29-08-2002 02:02									#337
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This is like watching a lab rat continually choosing the food that delivers an electric shock...

Seriously blackice, this joke is getting old now, you can start being serious any time.

If you're going to be so silly, why don't you start blaming Klein for the murder rate in Vancouver, or perhaps even blaming him for the "10000 deaths a year due to pollution" in Ontario? You could even go and call him a little munchkin or something, anything is funnier and probably more relevant than what you're trying to pull here.

Apolyton is too smart for your crap, if you seriously believe that, why don't you try telling people that somewhere else where they might be stupid enough to buy it?

My favorite part of this whole argument is when you asked for a link for proof that the East wasn't hit as hard as the West with the NEP.
Or maybe how you dismiss the opinion of dozens of PhDs in economics in an economic issue because the newspaper who reported it is from the West.
Or how you tried to blame the low vacancy rate/high rent rates on Klein.
Gosh, there's just so much to choose from with you.

	29-08-2002 02:05									#338
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quote: Red Deer is also booming, blackice. In fact nearly every city in Alberta is experiencing record growth, which is why rent is high, it has absolutely nothing to do with Klein.

Yes Asher that's what it said low wages, minimum wages and high rents, cost of living. Your denial is showing again, popped the little boys bubble about the god province Alberta with a *uckhead for a leader.

I see your reading skills have not improved.

quote: BTW, if you know so much about this, how come you repeatedly spell Klein's name wrong?

It's intentional, nothing more insulting then spelling someone's name wrong. I can not post what I really call him.

	29-08-2002 02:06									#339
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People who are poor tend to suffer from low wages, blackice. It's in fact a fundamental trait of being poor.

Couple this with a booming town with low vanacies and high rent, and you've got yourself perfect fodder for left-wing dribble...

The article mentioned poor people have low wages and are having a hard time finding affordable places to live due to the low vacancy rate and high rent rates, and you're trying to make it sound like everybody makes low wages.

What do you want Klein to do, put a rent cap on housing like the brainchild NDP did in BC?

	29-08-2002 02:08									#340
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quote: My favorite part of this whole argument is when you asked for a link for proof that the East wasn't hit as hard as the West with the NEP.

You back peddle well, you can not provide the link because your wrong.
The facts speak for themselves. So does your continued incoherant diatribe, opinions with no proof are just that.
Give it up Asher you lost go back to cutting your losses.:eyesroll:

	29-08-2002 02:09									#341
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Why don't you provide a link which says the East was hit as hard as the West due to the NEP, then we'll talk.

	29-08-2002 02:14									#342
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quote: People who are poor tend to suffer from low wages, blackice. It's in fact a fundamental trait of being poor.

Duh! so why is the wage so low in a booming economy, oh right greed.

quote: Couple this with a booming town with low vanacies and high rent, and you've got yourself perfect fodder for left-wing dribble...

Yup good planning.

quote: The article mentioned poor people have low wages and are having a hard time finding affordable places to live due to the low vacancy rate and high rent rates, and you're trying to make it sound like everybody makes low wages.

You make it sound like everyone is rich, they are not. In fact look it up Asher the service industry is one of the biggest industries you have going out there. What do you think they make Asher, minimum wage.
You can not live on minimum wage out there. What an idiot.

quote: What do you want Klein to do, put a rent cap on housing like the brainchild NDP did in BC?

Could start with raising the minimum wage. Could also stop starving the poor. I don't know maybe look after the people that he was ellected to do? Not Whinny klien nooo remember he hates the poor.

	29-08-2002 02:15									#343
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quote: Why don't you provide a link which says the East was hit as hard as the West due to the NEP, then we'll talk

What a cop out you said it you back it up, lying you do all too well. Pathetic loser come to mind.

	29-08-2002 02:20									#344
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Duh! so why is the wage so low in a booming economy, oh right greed.

You do realize the economy in Canada is not a command economy, right? It's a mixed market, with leaning tendancies towards the free market. If you don't have job skills in demand, you won't get a very high salary. That's life in this system, if you don't like it, move to Cuba.

quote: You make it sound like everyone is rich, they are not. In fact look it up Asher the service industry is one of the biggest industries you have going out there. What do you think they make Asher, minimum wage. You can not live on minimum wage out there. What an idiot.

Not everyone here is rich, but more people have more money here than most other provinces. That'd be why Alberta is home to the highest average salaries, you know.

quote: Could start with raising the minimum wage. Could also stop starving the poor. I don't know maybe look after the people that he was ellected to do? Not Whinny klien nooo remember he hates the poor.

Raising the minimum wage would be fine, I think it should be up to $8 anyway to reflect the real world situation. The Real Canadian Superstore is ALWAYS looking for applicants and the starting wage there is $10/hr (but they're unionized), and Safeway is $9.50/hr, and most stores are $8-$9/hr starting.

Minimum wage is there at a minimum, and incase you haven't noticed, unemployment is low in Alberta and growth is high, there is actually talk about shortages of low-paying (<$10) workers in Calgary this summer.

Here's some fun facts for you to deal with:
http://www.gov.ab.ca/acn/200208/12946.html

quote: Other provincial government labour market publications are available and indicate Alberta workers' earnings are on the rise. According to the July 2002 Bargaining Update, unionized workers earned 5.8 per cent more in 2001 than the year before. The largest increases were in the construction industry at 5.6 per cent and health care at 8.8 per cent. Albertans are also earning more each week than the average Canadian. The Alberta Monthly Economic Review indicates Albertans' average earnings in 2001 were $684.10 compared to the national average of $664.90.

But hey, don't let little facts get in the way of your rant about how evil Klein is.
The minimum wage is there, it's VERY rarely actually used as a wage due to the market dynamics. It should be raised though, I agree.

	29-08-2002 02:23									#345
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quote: Originally posted by blackice What a cop out you said it you back it up, lying you do all too well. Pathetic loser come to mind.

blackice, it's generally accepeted by everyone that The West was hurt far more by the NEP than the East. You're the one saying otherwise, you have to link it.

BTW, here's some more stats for you:
http://www.ab.hrdc-drhc.gc.ca/lmi/2...ion=20&Noc=6622

For a simple grocery store stockboy provincewide the average is $7.97 starting, $11 after 3 years. The overall average wage for grocery store workers in Alberta is $11.01/hour right now.

Or retail: http://www.ab.hrdc-drhc.gc.ca/lmi/2...ion=20&Noc=6421

Average starting is $9.71, $13 after 3 years, $13.26 average overall for the province.

	29-08-2002 02:39									#346
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http://www.canoe.ca/CNEWSTrudeauNews/edmreax-sun.html

quote: "Schoolchildren in Alberta were raised to believe that NEP was a four-letter word," recalls Senator Nick Taylor, who, at that time, had the difficult task of leading the provincial Liberals.

Yes you were Asher and still are, remmeber I was there.

quote: Western Canada blamed the NEP for the collapse of the greatest boom Alberta had ever known. But Taylor points out it wasn't Trudeau who was responsible for the eventual drop in world oil prices that decimated the industry.

Most people know this but Albertans denial is obvious.

	29-08-2002 02:43									#347
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quote: Here's some fun facts for you to deal with:

Asher I do not read your governments propaganda, go the the auditor generals report. Most if not all the crap klien government puts up is pure turd. No different here in Ontario, it is not fact it is governemnt BS. It proves nothing and says nothing.

	29-08-2002 02:43									#348
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What a very smooth transition. After one argument is blatantly shot down, ten new ones sprout up.

I don't have the energy for this right now. Keep spewing your anti-Albertan rhetoric, but you should know that by now only a complete and utter fool would believe anything that comes out of your mouth.

BTW, you tried your selective quoting method again. From that very same article:

quote: "The (oil) industry literally shut down overnight. Hundreds of Alberta companies went bankrupt because of that." The vice-president of global energy for the Canadian Energy Research Institute agrees that Trudeau's program was harsh on Alberta's oil industry. "He thought that the wealth created by having access to low-cost resources should be shared across the country," said Judith Dwarkin. "There was a big wealth transfer out of Alberta, and that was of considerable distress to both the private and public sector here." The program was not phased out until world oil prices dropped and a Conservative government came to power in 1984.

Oil prices worldwide dropped largely after the NEP already trashed the economy, it was adding insult to injury.

	29-08-2002 02:44									#349
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quote: Originally posted by blackice quote: Here's some fun facts for you to deal with: Asher I do not read your governments propaganda, go the the auditor generals report. Most if not all the crap klien government puts up is pure turd. No different here in Ontario, it is not fact it is governemnt BS. It proves nothing and says nothing.

The wage figures are from the GOVERNMENT OF CANADA, the other figures are from the government of Alberta.

I find it very odd that you have cited the City of Calgary's webpage in the past, but as soon as Government of Alberta facts and statistics blatantly fly in the face of whatever you're spouting off about, it's suddenly not a reliable source.

Totally clueless.

	29-08-2002 02:58									#350
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More for you to toss aside because it disagrees with what you said and is therefore propaganda

http://www.alberta-canada.com/economy/ablab.cfm




Average Weekly Manufacturing Wages, 1999


compensation board premiums per $100 per paycheck


These also don't take into account the lack of a provincial sales tax in Alberta and the lower provincial taxes overall.

http://www.statcan.ca/english/indep...00004002s1a.htm

quote: Weekly wages rose the most in Ontario and Alberta.

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/000724/d000724b.htm

quote: Hourly wages rose 4.0% in Alberta, the strongest growth rate among the provinces. Weekly wages increased fastest in both Alberta and Ontario, (+3.6%).

Are these all lies?

	29-08-2002 03:02									#351
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quote: anti-Albertan rhetoric

Not, it is the facts butthead obviously you have a hard time with them.

You lost go away now

City of Calgary>Alberta government humm two different things Asher obviously.

Yes that man did say that it was his opinion, short term pain long term gains. The NEP also gave Alberta and Canada the backward linkages associated with the petrolium industry. Up until them the Americans got it. I really do not think you have a clue what and why the NEP was brought in or what possitive changes it made that today you reap the benifits of. No I know you don't have a clue.

	29-08-2002 03:05									#352
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I do know what and why the NEP was brought in, and I also do know that it didn't do what it was intended to do. It did increase the marketshare of Canadian presense in the field, but only because it drove away American interests. Stuff like Petro-Canada is good and I agree with, but it's VERY clear Trudeau didn't have any ****ing idea what he was doing economically.

But hey, what would I know about the NEP's current "benefits" to Alberta? I only live here and am in a family of people who work high up in the oil industry, it's not like THEY know anything about it. Hell, even all of these Economics PhDs are blatantly wrong because blackice said so.

The NEP did some good things, but for every good thing there were more bad things. Its net effect was an economic and political disaster, despite what you and a former Liberal Senator Taylor think about it.

I would also appreciate you just admit you have no idea what you're talking about with Alberta's wages, since they're considerably above average nationwide and minimum wage jobs are extremely rare in such a healthy economy like this.

And BTW, why is it okay for you to link to a munincipal government of the most conservative city in Canada's webpage but it's not acceptable for me to link to the Government of Alberta's webpage? It's an obvious double standard and an obvious attempt for you to ignore and dismiss anything you don't agree with. It's probably why you're so horribly misguided on just about every issue right now, but wish to believe it's everyone else who is wrong...

	29-08-2002 03:12									#353
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more meangless diatribe give it up Asher you toatlly hopeless. I am sure the service sector gets $20.00 per hour right

	29-08-2002 03:13									#354
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And that has officially signaled the end of this debate.

	29-08-2002 03:19									#355
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Case closed!

	29-08-2002 03:20									#356
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See ya

Now back to on topic optimus2861 the CBC peice is on going. We are hearing more and more of this everyday. Cretien will have to come up with a real good deal to stay on as the head dictator.

PC's do well out here but lets face it they slapped a lot of people around too. Reform is a western party they have some good ideas but others are just plain stupid. The east will not see a single Reform vote IMHO. I do see more Liberal votes for BC though.

	29-08-2002 03:23									#357
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Asher look at the changed government rules in applying for Welfare your answer. That is also why there are more people living in poverty.

You really do not know how it works, you know why?
because you live at home sheltered from reality as someone foots your bill.

	29-08-2002 03:28									#358
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Asher look at the changed government rules in applying for Welfare your answer. That is also why there are more people living in poverty. You really do not know how it works, you know why? because you live at home sheltered from reality as someone foots your bill.

I edited it out because I knew you would say that anyway.

The fact is according to StatsCan there are less people living in poverty in Alberta than the national average, and the average wages in Alberta are above the national average, so all of your whining about it just boggles my mind and is just typical of anti-Albertan rhetoric which is so prevalent in Canadian society but no one seems to care.

There. Now we're done. Continue whining about how Albertans are going to kill everyone or whatever.

	29-08-2002 03:40									#359
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Today's Forecast for the Canadian region of OT...

---
The brown out intensifies as the sh!t storm continues unabated. Look for more sh!t tomorrow. Friday will see yet more sh!t. We can't see further than that though since the sh!t has hit the fan and is obscuring our instruments.

---
In other news...

Little green men have been spotted in Ontario. It is speculated that they are increasing the dosage in an attempt to create a sh!t storm of unheard of proportions.

---
Scientists are baffled by the origin of the strange wheather phenomenon. Beaker is working on a theory though, so just chill.

---
Our Person in the Street feature caught this comment from a random person in the streets of Hong Kong... "Canadians should enjoy this sh!t. It's good for them. They've got it coming, because they didn't lift a finger to help China when the Mongols over-ran the Sung dynasty. If they didn't want it they should stop eating, then there would be less sh!t."

---
And that's our broadcast for today folks. Don't forget your protective eye wear.

	29-08-2002 03:44									#360
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quote: I edited it out because I knew you would say that anyway.

In other words the Alberta government bs was quickly tossed out by you once your google search clued you in.

quote: average wages in Alberta are above the national average

[

*link* Not Alberta government a good one. This is bunk too and you know it.

quote: The fact is according to StatsCan there are less people living in poverty in Alberta than the national average

1% wooho and Alberta is what 400 times more wealthy than the national average. Hey you get bragging rights Weakest point the two fools have made yet.

quote: so all of your whining about it just boggles my mind and is just typical of anti-Albertan rhetoric which is so prevalent in Canadian society but no one seems to care.

Whining? Anti-Alberta love the place, you don't your out of here as soon as your schooling is over. Seems to me you should quit while your behind. Facts are facts cry boy, if you can not handle it knit.

quote: Now we're done.

Four time you have said this

Bye?

So what do you think the chances of Martin getting western votes?