25-08-2002 19:53									#1
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You know what I'm talking about.

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	25-08-2002 19:55									#2
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The English would declare war on Germany for 390 g, + 2gpt. This might very well occupy the German army throughout their campaign against us, at the price of nearly all our money, and stripping our upgrading ability.

The Americans will sign an alliance vs the germans for free. Hell, they'll give us all their money (22$).

Our fighters in france (IMHO) should stay in france. We chose this time to attack, we should stick with it. The french are isolated. Let's toast'm.

1 Warrior in tass, 2 in BHQ. Some quick spearmen will allow us to upgrade them and send them off to hot spots. As it stands, Mingpulco (sp) is not in any danger.

The archer near the area that is part of the settler stack is no danger to anything but settlers/workers.

That archer next to del monte is a wild card, and needs to be eliminated. As long as we have anything like that in our territory, no worker is safe.

Geofront and Napoleton are sitting ducks. Ubergorsk could donate a spearmen to northern defense, as they have two and city walls. Napoleton grows in 6-- something wise to rush build? Geofront in 2. Seeberg-- Two pop, 1 spearman, zero walls. They could rush walls or spearmen right now, or take 11 turns at either.


I corrected a few mistakes. I thought we were at war with greece at first .

Last edited by Epistax on 25-08-2002 at 20:10

	25-08-2002 20:03									#3
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Greece, what about Greece. Will they sign with us? I really would like to avoid ALL our immediate neighbors at war with us.

If we sign with England, will it prompt Greece into war with us because they ar warring with England? Making an Aztec, England, and Us against Greece, France, Germany, and Persia?

	25-08-2002 20:03									#4
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Looks like with Persia, we may need to stay on our own two feet.... It seems to me that ending the war with France ASAP is necessary and redistributing troops towards Persia is the only sane option, unless more alliances can be made somewhere...?

On the plus side ( I always try to do this ), we can possibly deny Persia that Iron (we'd better ).

Can anyone do a comparison of the risks we face against each enemy? We know we could likely handle the French on their own, but which of Germany and Persia is worst? I may be wrong (let me know), but these alliances are all mutual and thus means that 20 turns must pass before the AI can make peace without losing face to its allies. Either we delay for 20 turns until we can hope for a peace or we make enough small victories that they feel the reduced rep is worth a break of the alliance.

	25-08-2002 20:12									#5
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Bah! The French will fly the white flag long before 20 turns! Bloody their nose a bit. We have enough troops to take another city. They will BEG for peace AND loose face at the same time! All the better. Must be carefull when asking for cities. They will have no defenders.

Germany is the biggest immediate threat. They have swords. We can upgrade our warriors to swords and post them on that front to pevent further attacks.

Bringing Amerca into the war could pevent Germany from attacking us, but will they crumble to Germany and make obtaining those Incense more difficult?

	25-08-2002 20:13									#6
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Given proximities of cities, I'd expect Germany to be much more aggressive. They'll probably try to pick up Seeberg and Napoleton. We could destroy munich, or leave it where it is. It is no danger.

If we replace the warrior defense in the east with spearmen, we could send the warriors off to be upgraded.

Does loveshack really need 2 spearmen? I'd send one to the east/north

	25-08-2002 20:15									#7
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There is a spear enroute to Napoleton at this time. Can't remember ETA.

	25-08-2002 20:16									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Epistax The Americans will sign an alliance vs the germans for free. Hell, they'll give us all their money (22$).

We shouldn't. Germany can easily conquer America and take Fragrance Valley which we so long for.
There are other ways to deal with Germany that will not risk our future expansion plans, such as rushing swordsmen and spearmen from Mingapulco to the German front. Since Persia is a minimal threat we can have just one swordsman guarding the Persian front while another will clean our territory of Persian settler stack (causing them significant losses and maybe causing them to change their minds and agree to a peace deal) and later join his friends in the German front.

	25-08-2002 20:19									#9
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So shall we continue the french conquest? Take rheims and marseilles, and sue for rouen, chartres? Their capital will go to Lyons.

	25-08-2002 20:20									#10
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Destruction of cities like Munich will piss the AI off like having cold water poured over your head during a blissful dream - we mustn't do this voluntarily unless we plan to be on the alert with them forever more, or we intend to take them out of the equation altogether.

	25-08-2002 20:37									#11
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I'm not sure if this is a good idea -- I personally don't like the idea of going to war with Greece -- but I thought I'd throw it out anyway.

England will declare war on Germany and Persia if we declare war on Greece and pay them 324 gold.

England will declare war on Germany if we declare war on Greece.

England will declare war on Persia if we declare war on Greece.

We could probably work a tech trade into any of these deals if we decided to take them, but I'm don't think we should -- I have no desire to A) guarentee that all of these wars last twenty turns, and B) get into a war with greece.

-- adaMada

	25-08-2002 20:51									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Epistax We could destroy munich, or leave it where it is. It is no danger.

We did see an archer there once. I doubt he'll leave Munich, he's probably the only unit the Germans sent with the settler that founded Munich.

quote: Originally posted by Epistax Does loveshack really need 2 spearmen? I'd send one to the east/north

	25-08-2002 21:28									#13
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I'm sorry but I feel that at this point, creating a world war is not what we want to do. Getting involved with Greece means getting involved with England and Aztecs. And then you have a 4v3. Or if we sign with England, its 3v4. Either way it's bad... and we really are not in a position to handle it.

I think the best solution is to do whatever it takes to get the French to come to peace with us and then stave off Germany and Persia, maybe on the offensive if we must.

	25-08-2002 22:20									#14
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It's all gone a bit wrong! I really hope my beloved settlers can get all the protection they need!

	25-08-2002 23:05									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Will 5001 It's all gone a bit wrong!

Understatement of the year.

Ubergorsk is well-defended (2 vet spearmen, fortified, behind walls). The Persians just now got involved in the war, so they may not have a big army ready.

And where is that settler stack of theirs? Slaves, anyone? (We could always use more.)

	25-08-2002 23:09									#16
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Slaves sound good to me.

	25-08-2002 23:33									#17
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I say we stick to our current strategy against france. Even with alliances against you the AI will still make peace. France will give us much for peace after we take Marselles and chartes and Rheims.
Persia would have to send troops a long way, they will just end up giving us workers.
Germany could be a threat that is why in my orders I urge an attack upon munich as soon as we kill of the settler stacks. Once you have bloodied an AI's nose they will let you be usually, I wouldn't even mind giving them something for peace.
Also lets go to uber isle with settlers, there they are safe from attack, except perhaps barbarians.
Aggie

	26-08-2002 00:08									#18
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ahem, forgive my ignorance, but is that pic at the top fact or something else?

	26-08-2002 00:12									#19
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ouch, that sucks
i dont think we should pull america into this war, because they can only lose and i'd rather take the incense valley from the americans than from anyone else
i think we should focus on our defense right now, take another french city and after that sue for peace ASAP
i dont think we have the time/power to take three french cities and fight off the germans and the persians at the same time
i also dont think that we should declare war to any other civ even if greece/england would join a military alliance then

	26-08-2002 00:29									#20
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This war declaration is a great opportunity to acquire slaves easily : with our upgraded swordsmen from Mingapulco, we could defeat the archer stacked with a settler to get 2 more industrious workers (and hopefully a promotion).
We also could hope taking munich by force, if its pop is 2 (population doesn't auto-update on the map IIRC. We'd have to come with troops next to Munich to be sure if it's conquerable or not.

I'm against signing alliance with England : we just got betrayed by Xerxes, and I don't think we need to give money to the only leader who is even more treacherous.
Plus, an alliance lasts 20 turns. In the event the Brits hold their promise more than 5-7 turns, we'll get a reputation hit when we sue the others for peace.

	26-08-2002 00:45									#21
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We don't need to bring anybody into this war, after looking at the save this might turn out to our benefit if we play it right.

CURRENT SITUATION
1)At war with France.
-Almost over, we march each army stack north and take the respective cities of Marseilles and Rheims, sue for peace. We'll get Rouen and possible Chartres (probably just Rouen but Chartres is smack in the middle of us, has nothing but jungle and therefore is frozen until we decide to thaw it out) Chartres isn't a concern cause its ours eventually whether by culture or a couple of our high school kids accidently taking in a halloween prank. After this we only have a One Front war.

2)At war with Persia. First, Persia and Germany don't despise us. The only reason they went to war with us is because they were paid to. A quick show of militance on our part and they'll be ready to sign a peace agreement.

We immediately build a couple of horsemen or warchariots depending on how interested we are in a GA right now and attack Sidon. Four units should take it but either way we can immediately make peace with Persia cause they weren't expecting to go to war with us. They just saw money and signed a contract.

3)At war with Germany.

In only a few turns we've strengthened our position to where we only have one foe: Germany. When you have juicy cities on your border and declare war on that border, you should seriously consider hiring an outside consultant.

Build swordsmen and march across the Banana Mountains and take Hamburg. As soon as we take her sue for peace and in the deal get back any cities of ours they've taken, ie Napoleton.

They're going to spread their forces across the border. Screw our cities their villages compared to Hamburg. Once we take Hamburg they'll gladly give us back Napoleton and Seeburg (that's if they've taken them, and that's an if) to insure we don't move on Berlin.

SYNOPSIS
1)Subjicate France (3-5 turns)
2)Smack Sidon/Introduce Persia to Reality (3-5 turns)
3)Take Hamburg, Hello Iron! (5-10 turns)

We are now at peace with the world, our world.

It's quick, most likely to be successful, and doesn't take too long. Why?

Because it's all us, baby! If we bring ANYONE into this war we're bound by 20 turn contracts. We do this quick and they won't want to have anything to do with this war.

REMEMBER Germany and Persia DID NOT prepare for this conflict. They're at war with us because someone paid them. It's a whole different situation because they haven't built and moved forces to invade. They are just now starting. Persia has half their known population INSIDE our borders in the form of the 40+ settler stacks roaming around. Slave labor is the Great Banana's answer to jungle growth (Banancles 21:6).

Heck, we might have enough leftover war veterans to finish off America as a Post War Special.

	26-08-2002 01:08									#22
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hi ,

Alexander tends to keep his word in pacts and wars , ....if we could provoke a war between a couple nations , we would be good , ....

even if we sue for peace with France , we are still faced with the germans and the persians , .....

and the persians rather fight to death then to give up , ...

have a nice day

	26-08-2002 01:15									#23
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quote: Originally posted by panag and the persians rather fight to death then to give up , ...

Nope, the Persians were are friends and are in a real pickle right now with there main production area our of immediate range and not connected t sidon with a good road system. All we have to do is strike first blood and they'll be ready for peace.

	26-08-2002 01:15									#24
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I know it looks bad but I think we can weather this storm.

We need cool heads and sound judgement.

Horses/chariots can get to the front line quicker but can I don't know how much use they will be as all our frontline cities are adjacent to mountians.

IMHO we shouldn't redirect any troops from the french front as they will probably be too lateto make any difference.

	26-08-2002 01:17									#25
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Also, although its risky, perhaps we could move all spearmen from our core cities to the frontline.

We have enough millitary stength and production to take care of ourselves it's more a matter of time than anything else.

	26-08-2002 01:25									#26
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quote: Originally posted by OPD I know it looks bad but I think we can weather this storm. We need cool heads and sound judgement. Horses/chariots can get to the front line quicker but can I don't know how much use they will be as all our frontline cities are adjacent to mountians. IMHO we shouldn't redirect any troops from the french front as they will probably be too lateto make any difference.

Not for Persia, Ubergorsk has a road on the iron and the only thing between it and Sidon is an empty Grassland.

As much as I'd like to punish Persia, all we have to do is ride across the grass and assault Sidon to end the war with Persia. Hamburg is the best asset available to us in this situation and should be our primary objective.

Mind you we need to connect Seeburg by road and build our road into the Mountains toward Hamburg if possible but I have no doubt we can come out of this with Hamburg.

	26-08-2002 01:38									#27
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This is what happens when one get really big. We had a very large empire, tried to make it bigger, and the A.I. resorted to war.

I am against an allience with England, no matter how much it might help with Germany.

I agree with Farb and his plan: Finish the war with France, they are vey weak an unprepared. Bloody Persia's nose with upgraded warriors by taking border areas. The Persians have been very slow to move and build an army, so their forces are not very strong currently.

Once we make France sue for peace, head straight for German lands and take them. Taking their iron is key, and also taking Munich. Then we should be ambitious and perhaps march on Berlin.

One possible danger is the coming in of Rome for France. The Romans are not far off but we can't get to them as easily as we can get to Berlin or Persepolis.

	26-08-2002 02:03									#28
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Once we make France sue for peace, head straight for German lands and take them. Taking their iron is key, and also taking Munich. Then we should be ambitious and perhaps march on Berlin.

I don't think we should worry about Munich. It will be ours very shortly and it's not a threat. IT PRODUCES ONE SHIELD A TURN just like Chartres. Jungle only gives you one food, dyes doesn't give you shields. Germany won't move any forces out of Munich because it will want to defend it from us. It's strategic in the AI's mind because it controls dye. We don't need dye, we already have it, for all practical purposes Munich isn't involved with this war.

Once Loveshack's border expands we'll possess 8 of the tiles in Munich's city radius leaving us TIED with them as Munich only has 8 tiles. Munich is closer to our capital, advantage ours. Our culture is far more dominant that Germany's, advantage ours. It's just a matter of time till the odds win it for us.

If we WASTE forces on Munich it jeopardizes our chances of taking Hamburg quick and easy.

And I'm all about quick and easy........

And like you said, when you get big the AI starts gunning for you. That's why I want to stop at Hamburg. We'll be right in the middle of Germany's war factory and by making peace the minute we take it we insure that we keep it. I doubt we could hold it if the war continued.

	26-08-2002 02:20									#29
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I'd prefer if one of the warriors made his way to the German front through Munich (i.e. conquered Munich and enslaved the worker there and then went to the German front). The more damage we cause to Germany, the more prune it will be towards signing a peace treaty.

	26-08-2002 02:27									#30
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Like GhengisF, I favor a vigorous prosecution of the war in France, with only minimal if any diversion of resources to the eastern front. We should shore up defenses along our border with Germany (pop-rushing walls at Seeburg, for example, and upgrading veteran warrior in Banana hq to move east, towards defense of Loveshack and points NE).
I like the idea of a raid on Sidon. Let's build up a modest force of horsemen, to swoop down from the iron hill there. (Not war chariots. A golden age now would be wasted' in what I see as an internecine border war, not a mortal crisis.)