31-08-2002 09:21									#31
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quote: The draft law, presented by the Economy and Finance Ministry, bans any form of “electric, electro-mechanical and electronic” game devices, including computers, from hotels, coffee shops, club premises and public areas in general.

How about libraries and universities?
Crazy greeks...

	31-08-2002 09:29									#32
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no, computers are not banned, games on them are

the thing is, an internet cafe providing to customers computers for internet access can not track a customer who goes on the yahoo games page

and it's our goverment not the whole nation that's crazy

	31-08-2002 09:48									#33
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Mark, what about the link you mentioned to Kas?

The draft law, presented by the Economy and Finance Ministry, bans any form of “electric, electro-mechanical and electronic” game devices, including computers, from hotels, coffee shops, club premises and public areas in general. This will not apply to Internet cafes, which, however, will not be allowed to offer their clients computer games

Is that accurate?

	31-08-2002 09:58									#34
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When Civ3 is outlawed, only outlaws will have Civ3.

	31-08-2002 10:08									#35
	Put an end to popups!

the news item is from may, the law was passed last month with a clafication on the non-gaming use of computers(apparently law enformenent authorities in greece can tell the difference between Word and games, but not between gambling software and civ3)....

	31-08-2002 10:08									#36
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ixnay, that post was genius.

	31-08-2002 10:09									#37
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But can they tell the difference between forum moderators and gamers MarK?

	31-08-2002 10:12									#38
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG the news item is from may, the law was passed last month with a clafication on the non-gaming use of computers(apparently law enformenent authorities in greece can tell the difference between Word and games, but not between gambling software and civ3)....

Did they broaden it to include non public areas?

	31-08-2002 10:14									#39
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG the news item is from may, the law was passed last month with a clafication on the non-gaming use of computers(apparently law enformenent authorities in greece can tell the difference between Word and games, but not between gambling software and civ3)....

Out here, we all huddle around the computer monitor and place bets on the outcomes of Civ3 battles.

	31-08-2002 10:34									#40
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quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick But can they tell the difference between forum moderators and gamers MarK?

dont know. dont care. i'm both

	31-08-2002 10:43									#41
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Unbelievable.

	31-08-2002 10:49									#42
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So Markos, because this site is about games, does this mean we are now posting on an underground criminal website?

Cool.

	31-08-2002 10:50									#43
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The website is in Texas, which makes us posting on an underground bunker style website.

This is why Mark moved the server from Greece to the US months ago.

	31-08-2002 10:59									#44
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If I had no games, I would go insane. insaner. Is that a word? it is now...


(why [edit: CG] shouldn't by on apolyton when he's tired)

Last edited by CapitanGarlic on 31-08-2002 at 20:13

	31-08-2002 18:10									#45
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG Kassiopeia, read this (from the first post) http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/n...t.asp?aid=17011

Silly. Ridiculous. What's next I wonder? Football?

	31-08-2002 18:39									#46
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the first link was very funny The one with the forum


I'm writing from an Internet cafee BTW. Do you think they'll arrest me? Don't rejoice fookers, it won't happen

About the subject, I don't know much about it, certaintly less than Markos. I think originally the gov. tried to enforce some kind of ridiculous taxation on internet caffees and treat them like casinos but now they pushed it even further?

This originates as was said already from the infamous froutakia, the one hand thieves, the slot machines the FRUITS.

The phenomenon had taken huge proportions. Apparently Greeks like to gamble and fortunes were lost.

After the government tried to deal with that, the ingenious and industrious Greeks turned to electronic gambling turning the PCs into virtual casinos.

I think it will propably be changhed again or more likely not be enforced after the situation has been controlled.

BTW, Marko did u see Gianopoulos in a "politistiko kentro = skyladiko talking with one of the "victims" of the frutakia some time ago?


_I am ruined Mr. Gianopoulos

_You shouldn't play!

_What am I going to do now? I've lost all my money gambling. I can't support my family. You (the gov.) are responsible for this!

_WHY DO YOU PLAY????!!!!!


hilarious exchange

Last edited by Bereta_Eder on 31-08-2002 at 18:44

	31-08-2002 18:47									#47
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I still can't believe this isn't a joke.

If they tried that here in Korea, the students would literally overthrow the government.

Check out the amount of time the average S.K. spends at a 'PC-Bang' and also that everyone 18-21 has military training.

	31-08-2002 18:48									#48
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Well I have to say I haven't noticed anything has changed... Guys are right now playing LAN CS in the upper and down floors of the internet caffee as we speak, at least 50 of them. :shrugs:

	31-08-2002 18:58									#49
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BTW Hatziioannou (the english should know him. "easyeverything" etc?) as well as other enterprise men have alredy informed the government that there are ways of checking and monitoring PC activity and making sure that noone uses the PC for casino purposes.

OTOH I've heard of a internet caffee in central Greece (Don't remember the name now) where the whole arsenal of its PCs can turn into virtual casinos and the owners REALLY don't want to report it...

I think the law will be enforced to those who do that and that the others will be left alone.

It just gives the gov. the ability to act when it is needed. IMHO.

	31-08-2002 19:12									#50
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Before I go just a final thought.

I know that there are laws regulating where you can gamble. And that these places are taxed according to the proper procedures. And I know that the government loses a lot of money if it can't control gambling.

OTOH the societal prioportions that this tyhing has gotten, namely the fortuns that are lost, I think weights or should weight on the individuals themselves.

One on hand the government has every right to protect its interests which are (or should be ) the interests of the people. Namely filling the country's treasure coffers with the taxes from the gambling places.

BUT you can't expect the government to be held responsible for your own stupidity. If you want to gamble and lose all your money, it's your fault and not the government's or anyone else.


I just wonder, if the internet caffees just reported that they are now using the place for gambling (those who do).... that way the government could just tax them and since there is sucha big demand, apparently, for gambling then they should also exist.


The whole point, IMHO and uneducated on the subject, opinion is the huge money the government loses from being unable to tax properly all the gambling places and less the gambling habits themselves.

Salut.

	31-08-2002 19:31									#51
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quote: Apoc, Civ3 is illegal unless i can prove that my computer is 100% mechanical

It is. 100% purely quantum mechanical

Why don't they simply make gambling illegal? There were so many gambling machines which don't use electricity some time ago... Gamblers can change to these and nothing would be won with the law.

	31-08-2002 19:40									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Adalbertus It is. 100% purely quantum mechanical Why don't they simply make gambling illegal? There were so many gambling machines which don't use electricity some time ago... Gamblers can change to these and nothing would be won with the law.

I didn't read any of the articles, but I think that government isn't trying to stop gambling, just that they want to get a cut of it - which they can't do with internet gambling.

	31-08-2002 19:44									#53
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paiktis, you can read the law here
http://www.netcafe.gr/files/pdf/nomos.pdf

	31-08-2002 19:50									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Adalbertus Why don't they simply make gambling illegal?

well that was the case before this law.
only thing though, it was discovered that the whole system was corrupted. so our brave goverment decided to introduce a new type of games: "ban'em all"

quote: There were so many gambling machines which don't use electricity some time ago...

ah that's ok, the greek state is able to differentiate gambling meganical machines from non-gambling ones and covers them into the ban
when you add electricity to the issue though....

	31-08-2002 20:50									#55
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Is the greek government still thinking mechanical? That would explain something.

	31-08-2002 21:10									#56
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quote: This is what happens when you don't have a Bill of Rights that actually gets upheld.

Are you implying the that the US bill of rights does actually get upheld??

	31-08-2002 21:22									#57
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG so you're saying that if i go outside of US army base and start taking pictures, a gentle female soldier with a sweet voice will come to me and say "oh please, mister Apolyton, don't take pictures here. please, sir, stop" OK, cool

No Mark, as long as I stand outside the fence, I can take all the pictures that I want. Now when I'm inside the fence, then I must have permission to take pictures. Several years ago at Beal Air force Base I took pictures of a J-58 engine. That engine was for the SR-71. The engine was just sitting there in the open spaces. At an airshow at Travis AFB I have taken picture of the F-117 from about 25 to 30 feet away. They have a little rope around the plane, keeping people 25 to 30 feet away for it. I even had one the guards pose in the picture. And I used a 135 telephoto lens.
Mark we are really an open country, look how easy it was to highjack 4 airplanes.

	31-08-2002 21:38									#58
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Before I go just a final thought. I know that there are laws regulating where you can gamble. And that these places are taxed according to the proper procedures. And I know that the government loses a lot of money if it can't control gambling.

Do you know how many American Football pools there will be for the next 20 weeks in the US. About 50 to 70% of every job, office, school will have a pool every week, some of them will be 500 to 1,000 dollars a pool and the Gov. will not get a pennie.

	31-08-2002 23:17									#59
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Still well in times of the cold war (1984?) I was on a hike in the black forest. On one of the mountain tops (Hornisgrinde) there was a (US?) military installation, also with a sign which disallowed taking photographs. It was written in English, French, German and --- Russian. I think they might as well have written a Russian version "take your photographs here".

	01-09-2002 01:52									#60
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So, can you still buy games in hairy Greekland?