01-09-2002 01:55									#61
	Put an end to popups!

I stand by the goverment 100%.The law targets gamblers, not gamers.


And as for the "tourists" taking "innocent" pictures you must keep in mind that Greece is a country surrounded by enemies and its greatest enemy, Turkey, has a military alliance with Israel which is almost synonimous with espionage.Last year 2 jews were captured by Cypriot authorities, taking "innocent" pictures of the future S-300 missile site.(Greeks will know what i am talking about).They were released after unbearable pressure from Israel.I saw the story on RIK, cypriot T.V.

Amazingly? this story did not make it to Greek headlines.

	01-09-2002 02:13									#62
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Will I be arrested in Greece if I bring over a Gameboy, or a PS2, or a Gamecube?

And if so, can you turn any of the above into gambling machines? How?!

Weird situation....

	01-09-2002 02:20									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Palaiologos I stand by the goverment 100%.The law targets gamblers, not gamers.

who the law makers had in mind has notthing to do with what the law states.
and the law makes no dinstiction between an internet cafe with 100 computers and my house with 1

	01-09-2002 03:32									#64
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I wouldn't want to be there when they'll ban porn as a well

	01-09-2002 04:02									#65
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I can just see it... yep, Markos and a bunch of Apolytoners betting on the outcome of the next Civ3 MP game....

	01-09-2002 15:48									#66
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG who the law makers had in mind has notthing to do with what the law states. and the law makes no dinstiction between an internet cafe with 100 computers and my house with 1

True, but you can't possibly believe that police officers will start arresting everybody they see using a computer for gaming.

It is just another case of a badly written law.We have a lot of those here in Greece.

	01-09-2002 15:50									#67
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quote: No Mark, as long as I stand outside the fence, I can take all the pictures that I want

IIRC that's untrue.

	01-09-2002 16:33									#68
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Palaiologos True, but you can't possibly believe that police officers will start arresting everybody they see using a computer for gaming.

true, but i cant rely on some assumption on how the police might act...

nor must i loose the god-given right to play computer games with a friends on internet cafes cause the state cant tell the difference between a casino game and civ3


btw, here is a not 100% correct, non-official translation of the law http://www.gameland.gr/lawenglish.htm
and a bit better one of the first 3 articles
http://www.netcafe.gr/files/law.txt

	01-09-2002 16:48									#69
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

what i was referring to in my first posts

quote: Cafe owners ‘enforce’ new law Protesting Internet cafe owners in Thessaloniki yesterday lodged formal complaints against a Citizens Support Center in the northern city whose online facilities, they claim, contravene a new law banning electronic games in public places. The complaints come one day after the arrest of two Thessaloniki Internet cafe owners for allegedly violating the same law. “Our aim is not to make life hard for public service workers... but to stress how irrational the new law is,” cafe owners explained yesterday, adding that they would plan new “surprises” unless the law was amended.

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/n...date=31/08/2002

	02-09-2002 00:26									#70
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Ehh, Markos? So if someone here sent a letter to the Greek police telling Markos Giannopoulos from Thesalloniki owns games, plays them and maintains a gaming site on the Net, with other Greeks attending it, would you get arrested?

	02-09-2002 07:49									#71
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Solver Ehh, Markos? So if someone here sent a letter to the Greek police telling Markos Giannopoulos from Thesalloniki owns games, plays them and maintains a gaming site on the Net, with other Greeks attending it, would you get arrested?

Now this is a loaded question.

	04-09-2002 20:24									#72
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Okay, I must admit that I hadn't taken any action earlier, so I did it now then. Signed both petitions available.

My signature in the petition by the Greek Internet Cafe Union.

quote: Name (capitals please): RASBELIN Email: rasbey@mail.gr Occupation: Student, Finland Comments: This is more than outrageous! Banning harmless games like Pacman and Tetris. Only morons do that, or more Greek parliament members that have been in the outback since the fall of the empire of a certain Macedonian.

And the Greek gaming community in danger petition...

quote: 13043. Rasbelin This is more than outrageous! Banning harmless games like Pacman and Tetris. Only morons do that, or more Greek parliament members that have been in the outback since the fall of the empire of a certain Macedonian.

	04-09-2002 20:33									#73
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

thanks for your input but when siging a petition is somewhat useful to appear at least moderaetly trustworthy and serious (so that they take you seriously )

	04-09-2002 20:40									#74
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

for example you could argue about the fall of the 4 hellenic kingdoms than ensued, the transfer of the imperial seat of the roman emopire to constantinople or if you really wanted maximum impact the fall of constantinople itself and the death of emperor constantine.

	04-09-2002 20:50									#75
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

So you got the pun about the Macedonian.

	04-09-2002 20:53									#76
	Remove this text

I agree, Paiktis, but I assume you understand why I put it like that. Anyway, I'm a realist so I don't believe my signature won't make a difference, but I want to encourage other Apolytoners to sign. BTW is it you who have spamed the F word in the petition?

	04-09-2002 20:55									#77
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Could you post the links Rasbelin? I'm not having any luck finding them (though I'm having to move quickly since I'm at work and shouldn't even be here )

	04-09-2002 20:55									#78
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

No.

	04-09-2002 21:12									#79
	Inflate your Upload Space

Okay, here's a brief list on different activities.

Current petitions

Greek gaming community in danger
Greek Internet Cafe Union - Real life paranoia!

Feedback

quote: gameland.gr Post your thoughts regarding this law to the Greek Parliament. The law is "Proedriko Diatagma 174, Teyxos 1, 30 July 2002 'Apagoreush Paigniwn.' "

Hellenic parliament

	05-09-2002 00:31									#80
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Markos it seems you were right all along. I owe an apology. The goverment makes no discretion of games and gambling.

I am currently studying in larisa for my degree and as i have regretably found out all the coin-up shops have been closed down.All people did in those shops was to play a couple of VIRTUA STRIKER games, not gamble.

Moreover most net-cafes have forbiden games to be played by their custommers, just so they have no problems with the police.

1-2 shops had indeed gambling machines installed but that doesn't mean they should close them all.

I have been informed that the same situation applies to my home town of Thessalonica.

Simply put, it's absurd.

	05-09-2002 05:11									#81
	Suffering from ads?

I know, our greek friends should disguise their computers as cookers or tables or something.

Maybe this law is so that the police can take any computer that they suspect of being used for terrorism..

We should all put a stop to this insanity, before it gives G Bush some mad ideas.

	05-09-2002 05:37									#82
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I might come in too late here... but the greek government is full of crap... what the hell are they trying to pull? Does Greece have a constititution that provides rights? I am a conservative and I play computer games too... and even if I am a conservative this banning is idiotic.

I doubt Bush would even think about following the same path.

	05-09-2002 06:01									#83
	Remove this text

I'll agree with Fez on this one... though I think the government is waiting to see how the courts receive a test case in a few weeks... that is, if the news I read is correct.

	05-09-2002 06:06									#84
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

The biggest possibility is, hopefully, the Supreme Court in Greece would probably overturn this law... most likely being unconstitiutional... that is if Greece really is democratic.

	05-09-2002 07:33									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Fez The biggest possibility is, hopefully, the Supreme Court in Greece would probably overturn this law... most likely being unconstitiutional... that is if Greece really is democratic.

I got the feeling any nation east of the danube is not.



This is a load of crap. I would be picket lining and protesting so fast it would make your head spin. But with my luck, we would have a greek version of the Tiananmen Square.

	05-09-2002 10:01									#86
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Thrawn,

bloodbath on Syntagma in Athens? That would be... absurd.

	05-09-2002 11:32									#87
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Thrawn05: Greece is south of Danube. If you really want to fit it into east/west, it is west of the Danube.

	05-09-2002 12:30									#88
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Does it apply to TV games? I mean, the games
need electricity to function: People register
by phone: Electricity - > BAN.
Not that I like TV games, mind you, but do the lawyers realize how much silly hte law they made are?
And what about toys? No electronic toys for
Greek children for Christmas? I suggest the Greeks here start a new doll and wood-toys industry. There will be lots of demand. Of course parents will have to convince their boy that this slick wooden sword is so much cooler than a gameboy...
Seriously, is there some massive reaction from the people or will this silly law stay there forever?

	05-09-2002 13:15									#89
	Full PM-box? Change here!

If you have been surfing around for information and discussions/outbursts related to this new law, you have most likely seen plenty of rants and general discussion. In general I would recommend signing the petitions and using gameland.gr as a starting point for your excurison into this subject.

	05-09-2002 20:05									#90
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Adalbertus Thrawn05: Greece is south of Danube. If you really want to fit it into east/west, it is west of the Danube.

I was thinking of the part of the danube that moves from north to south, by Budapest. That's were I drew the line.